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Cai Songfang found on youtube

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:52 am
by Haoran
Four part video of Cai Songfang found on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UicSUXo-bk4

Re: Cai Songfang found on youtube

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:44 pm
by I-mon
Thanks dude!

are you still seeing him from time to time? how is he doing?

Re: Cai Songfang found on youtube

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:48 pm
by Haoran
Hey I-Mon.. no, I'm in the states now so no chance to see him. Last I saw him he seemed well with the exception of being a little stiff in walking. I talked to his student here in the states who said he gave Teacher Cai some good massage when he was there and Teacher Cai was back to normal.

Re: Cai Songfang found on youtube

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:53 pm
by I-mon
That's good to hear. He always got me to do massage work on him as well, just so that he could "check my progress", of course.

Re: Cai Songfang found on youtube

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:11 am
by ors
Guys!

I have seen this video previously. Who is Cai Songfang? It is a shame but I don't know anything about him. It is wu style isn't it?

Thanks in advance!

Örs

Re: Cai Songfang found on youtube

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:41 am
by I-mon
No he did Yang style taiji but gradually started doing less form, only the 4 basics of grasping the birds tail, until eventually practicing mostly wujigong.

Jan Diepersloot wrote about him in the first "warriors of stillness" book. He lives in Shanghai but is very much retired. I studied Wuji with him for about 6 months back in 2005, he seemed quite old and frail, but had the best push hands skill I've ever felt.

Re: Cai Songfang found on youtube

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:35 am
by jjy5016
I would have liked to meet him but I don't think that he'll be coming back to the US any time soon.

My own teacher studied with him briefly and thought highly of his methods.

I have a couple of hours of video of him teaching when he came to the US. I think it was in the late 70's or early 80's. Fong Ha, Henry Look, Jan Diepersloot and others I don't know are in it all learning from him.

Cai Songfang found on youtube

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:52 am
by Markus
living in shanghai i visit him every couple of month. last time was a few weeks ago and his health has improved a lot

Re: Cai Songfang found on youtube

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:17 am
by ors
So it is yangstyle. More likely zhan zhuang... :)
What is his lineage if I may ask?

Örs

Re: Cai Songfang found on youtube

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:40 am
by Haoran
ors, I have some documents in Chinese regarding his lineage. Started to look for them last night but got side tracked. I'll see what I can find. Essentially Wuji Qigong is alignment of "three points on the same line" between heaven and earth, following Taiji principles of structure, and is a Qi Building, Channel Opening exercise. It is very simple to learn and practice on the "collecting" part. Using the Qi as Cai can do is beyond my current level. Perhaps others can comment on this.

Markus, That sounds great!! Before I left for China the man who introduced me to Teacher Cai told me he's not teaching anymore so I respectfully allowed him his space. When I returned to the US the guy says, "why didn't you spend more time with Teacher Cai"... ?? Well... you said...

Ah. Go figure. Anyway, it's good to hear he's doing better. I've combined Swimming Dragon qigong to my daily practice of Wuji and Bagua to help with flexibility and hopefully keep that way into older age.

Re: Cai Songfang found on youtube

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:52 am
by ors
Haoran!

I can see his structure is very well developed. He can use this nicely as well. It is just interesting, that this kind of push hands usually performed by wu stylists, that's all. That is why I asked about his lineage. I wouldn't be surprised if you write that he has some connection to the late Zhang Daquan...

Thanks for the infos!

Örs

Re: Cai Songfang found on youtube

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:06 am
by Haoran
Ors,

I've personally met only one other Master who had the level of Cai and that is Tony Ho (Ho nan jie) who, upon arriving at his class the first day taught me how to stand using the same principles teacher Cai and students had taught me years before. Tony Ho is from the Wu style lineage:

http://www.rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6849
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8HhLGqDXdo&feature=sub

The Wu guys in People's park were very good too but I could never get them to say they practiced Wuji Zhan Zhuang. Every time I asked they said, meiyou yong and continued to show form practice.

Re: Cai Songfang found on youtube

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:34 am
by C.J.Wang
Haoran wrote:The Wu guys in People's park were very good too but I could never get them to say they practiced Wuji Zhan Zhuang. Every time I asked they said, meiyou yong and continued to show form practice.


It's the typical secret-hiding behavior in CMA community. When outsiders or regular students ask about certain key practices that truly build skill and power, insiders would usually either laugh it off as nothing or avoid the subject altogether.

Re: Cai Songfang found on youtube

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:04 pm
by neijia_boxer
Cai Songfang- I really like this guy from reading Tai Chi magazine like 20 years ago. Apparently when Yang Jian Hao died he gave Yang Chen fu instructions on what to do to be better than Yang Jian Hao’s best senior students. The lesson was to increase time and understanding of ‘Wu Ji’ standing. Cai learned some Yang Taiji but felt it was to difficult and then focused more on Wu Ji standing, few taiji movements, and push hands. Cai ran with the standing principle and went very deep in gong fu and meditative aspects.

Re: Cai Songfang found on youtube

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:28 pm
by Haoran
Yes, I think Cai's Wuji standing methods are very good. The only thing I would add is, as I mentioned before, some kind of exercise to keep flexible such as Swimming Dragon.

I've heard Sher K. Lew has said standing exercises are very good for generating Qi but can also cause stagnation. A combination of moving and standing is best IMO.

Also, Teacher Cai told me to stand no more than 1 hour at a time. Stand for an hour, walk around, then stand for another. However, when we would stand with him one time he stood for 1 hour 20 minutes one time.

The man who introduce teacher Cai to me was told by Cai to stand 4 hours a day (broken up of course).