Post Clips of your WU (JQ)

[Muad'dib]

This is from 2003, shortly after the last chance I had to study with my teacher. Frankly watching this video hurts, because I have lost so much. I don't know if other people will think this is good or not, nor do I care really, but knowing where I was then, and am now. It's a fucking shame.

Also, this is not the complete sequential wu form, because it was done free style in for performance. The beginning of the form was edited out because the camera guy was only shooting my head for some reason.

[edededed]

Hey, that's really nice!!

[Dmitri]

That was some dramatic music!

[Buddy]

Is this the square form? It seems to lack continuity.

[I-mon]

great choice for the music, that was really cool. the words "Darth Madar" kept repeating in my head as I watched.

you're getting back into practice again these days right? finished law school - it's all good.

[Muad'dib]

Buddy, that could be for two reasons.

1) As I understand the distinction, it is the square form.
2) I didn't link the movements together in the proper order, because I just wanted to make something that would not bore the shit out of the audience two much.

I think they were hoping for a break though. The guy before me was a iaijutsu master who, while demonstrating his kicking power, kicked a baseball bat in half and sent part of it careening into the audience and nailed a little kid in the head.

Ed,

I told you I used to be good (ish).

I-Mon,

Soundtrack from 300. I listen to it as part of my "galley slave mix" while working out. I also through in some of the Conan, Gladiator and LOTR soundtracks.

[qiphlow]

very smooth and controlled. why the lean in wu style? i've always wondered about that.

[Muad'dib]

Thanks.

According to one of Mah Yueh Liang's books (The orange one), the lean helps cultivation and retention of chi. Many people seem to think its generally against the principles of straight back, etc. In fact, the back is straight, its simply not perpendicular...

[qiphlow]

thanks back atcha for the explanation. i can see the straight spine. in fact, you've got a nice line going from your heel to your head--looks like it's very stable.

[cdobe]

Buddy, that could be for two reasons.

1) As I understand the distinction, it is the square form.

Hi Daniel,
this form isn't a square form. The lineages from Shanghai don't have this kind of form. Your form would be classified as "Man Quan" or slow form. The different square forms all come from the Hongkong lines. It is said that Wu Gongyi first came up with the square form and other Hongkong teachers like Cheng Wing-Kwong devolped their own ones after his model. It's also possible that Wu Jianquan developed this type of form together with his son. Stephen Hwa claims that his teacher learned the square form directly from Wu Jianquan. That's absolutly possible IMO, since Wu has adapted his style before by creating the slow form. He may have experimented together with his eldest son as his father has done with him.

Basically, a square form is broken down into many individual movements. Usually a single posture is broken down into three seperate movements (the more complex postures may be further broken down). After each step there is a short break. The teacher or one of the students would shout "1...2...3 ... 1...2..3 ..." and so on.
There are different reasons for this kind of form. First, it's easier to teach large groups of people. Wu Gongyi sometimes trained dozens of people at a time. I've been told that he even taught on the Hongkong TV (I haven't seen it myself though). So he basically took the way the form was always taught - precisly broken down into its smaller components - and formalized it into a routine.
Another aspect of square forms is that you deliberatly keep certain parts of your body still. That, together with the stops in between, gives these forms a robotic appearance. In 'Grasp Birds Tail" for example everything except the waist (or hip in some lineages) would be kept completely still. This is an interesting way of exploring the form and makes you realize certain aspects that you easily miss if you train the continuous form. To emphazise this aspect of the square forms there are some movements that are considerably different than in the "round form". So if you string the individual movements together to a "continuous square form", it's still a different form.

CD

[cdobe]

very smooth and controlled. why the lean in wu style? i've always wondered about that.

You can try it out on your furniture or your car. How would you push it? I feel that it is more "natural" to exert forward force in this inclined position. Another name for this is the "ox plow stance" and if you look at how people used to plow their fields in the old days with an ox or horse, you see that they were in the same body position. So it seems to be a very functional and economic way to exert force forward (and downward btw).
In Yang style there are also some people like Dong Yingjie and Yang Shou-Chung who used an inclined body posture. So they didn't think it was a violation of Taiji principles either

[Muad'dib]

thanks Cdobe.

My teacher learned from Mah, but in a time prior to his development of the circular form. The opening to this form, that I am performing, is mildly different from the opening to the circular form I've seen done by later shanghai students, but similar to the opening I've seen done by square form students. Frankly my teacher never discussed any of this. The attitude was basically "do it right, and don't worry about the name." Still SOME info would have been nice. For ages my friend and I thought we were doing Yin Style Bagua based on her telling us Ji Jinshan was her teacher. It wasn't until we found an article by Ven. Fish that we learned otherwise... Weird, I know.

[cdobe]

thanks Cdobe.

My teacher learned from Mah, but in a time prior to his development of the circular form. The opening to this form, that I am performing, is mildly different from the opening to the circular form I've seen done by later shanghai students, but similar to the opening I've seen done by square form students. Frankly my teacher never discussed any of this. The attitude was basically "do it right, and don't worry about the name." Still SOME info would have been nice. For ages my friend and I thought we were doing Yin Style Bagua based on her telling us Ji Jinshan was her teacher. It wasn't until we found an article by Ven. Fish that we learned otherwise... Weird, I know.

Which form did Ma develop ? It's a little bit confusing for me since the MAs themselves only make a distiction between "Man Quan" and "Kuai Quan".

CD

[Muad'dib]

Then I don't know, and guess I don't care. If I get back to being happy with my form, eventually I may post the whole thing. I don't do this for the whole "My form, your form"/lineage BS.

[cdobe]

Then I don't know, and guess I don't care. If I get back to being happy with my form, eventually I may post the whole thing. I don't do this for the whole "My form, your form"/lineage BS.

I hope I didn't offend you in any way. That was not my intention. And I'm not into lineage BS either. I've learned completely different versions of Wu style myself. Each has it's own merits. But since I often come across the confusion about square/round and fast/slow forms I wanted to point out who calls what type of form what.

It would be interesting to see or hear what variation of the opening you do.

CD

- EDIT -
I re-read my own posting and now got an idea how it may have come across in the wrong way. Maybe it helps to point out that one of the two versions I practice also comes from the Ma family. By saying "in Shanghai they don't have square and circular forms" I was only trying to point out the difference