Some nice Baji clips

[Kurt Robbins]

I train using elbows with elbow pads and head protection, you don't have to be viscous just uncooperative. I am lucky enough to train with professionals, so I might have my standards eschewed. If this was just an exclusive brain storming session I would not have said anything, but this is the standard for Baji clips consisting of "applications".

[Ron Panunto]

Not meaning to come off like an ass- and this is not pointed at you, but at Baji practitioners.

Maybe they should teach anger management along with Baji.

[Kurt Robbins]

[bailewen]

Feel yer pain buddy.

They look a lot like some of the apps I have seen Lu Baochun teaching except I think he presents them more convincingly. I thought at least the guys with the sparring gear were decent. The "Baji Fight Applications 2"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNW69rq8 ... r_embedded

The use of the "stabbing elbows" in the very beginning. He's basically using both hands to keep his face/head covered and simply pressing in closer with the elbows. It speaks to your question about the first clip: How on earth are you going to have time for the groin slap when almost no fighter on this earth is going to throw the jab without following it with a cross or a kick? Furthermore, at the 10 second point when they pause to show all the potential follow-ups, the guy on the left really does not have any positional dominance. There are all sorts of counters that the other guy could be throwing against those followups. I can see that position turning into a throwing match right off the bat. Black is in pretty much perfect position for an excellent sweep if he just turns away from the palm-groin slap and sweeps white's lead leg. He already has 3 point contact. White, OTOH, if his listening is good enough, could stuff the sweep and reverse it. All sorts of things could happen. If it was "for realz" I see that exchange turning into a competition of throwing/sweeping skills.

In that clip Bob posted, once the first punch is thrown, his fingertips pretty much don't leave contact with his own head.

The second technique demoed could be improved by removing the 1-2 nature of the counter and just directly striking with the shoulder as a counter to the kick. He's kind of taking a half step back to find his angle to block it and then advancing with the shoulder. If, instead, he took a quick shuffle forward (and to the inside of the curve of the kick) then he could combine the block and shoulder strike into a single move. Left as it is in the demo, again, no right round kick is going to be thrown without a follow-up. To my mind, the most natural combo is going to be a right hand of some sort. The guy demoing the technique should be getting punched on the right side of his head.

But the general idea is still very good. Just need to step in instead of back and use the shoulder simultaneous to the block rather than after it.

[fuga]

Kurt,

What with all your crazy live fighting versus techniques, you are beginning to sound like this guy.

http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7174#p120523



Some times I wonder if we don't need a subforum for folks who actually train to compete.

[Kurt Robbins]

[BajiNooby]

Umm i see a the Italian guy taking out stuff from a form and showing the applications, what's to argue about that? Of course if you don't know how to apply form stuff like this to fighting it might be a bit unclear yes...
Yeah fighting is not like taking out applications from forms, i think that should be clear now for everybody, thank you.

[Kurt Robbins]

Did you even read the thread?

And yes, your applications in your forms should actually work, or why are you doing them?

[Kurt Robbins]

(I'm done on this one)

[BajiNooby]

Yes i read the thread and think it's pretty silly, taking out something that you don't really understand and put that into your own context so you can bash on Baji and it's practicioners.

Applications are not rigid, they contain many small things that you use. Those things work if you make them work, forms will not make them work for you.

Yeah i think i'm pretty much done also, not much to discuss on this topic anyway the way it's being disscussed right now..

[Wanderingdragon]

I know I said i would say no more but ,here's another one of my heros
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2ETiQZz ... re=related

[bailewen]

Come on guys, Kurt is not even being that caustic. There's plenty of Baji out there that is highly questionable in the application department. I've learned some silly one's like a punch to the foot that was the "official" app but then learned "off the record" usage for the same move that was more like an overhand right that digs down into the torso and drives the person all the way backwards and down to the ground or versions where it was more of a head but and leg pick combination.

We would all be much better off in Bajiland if we honestly separated the wheat from the chaff on this stuff.

Compare the Italian guys ding zhou entry to Lu Baochun's:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kcad39D ... 11&index=6


You just can't put those Italian clips in the same league. The Italian dude strikes me as some guy who has put some honest time in enjoys sharing his art as he understands it but he's just not really instructor quality is all. I'm not inclined to bag on his clips as they were pretty enjoyable. His entry was essentially the same as what Lu teaches but look at the follow up. He did not address the danger presented by the other hand. In Lu's demo, that was the very first thing he pointed out, that the other hand was following behind. Pointing out the hole's in the Italian demo should not cause people to get upset. There's some honest critique going on. I didn't think it was mean spirited at all.

[BajiNooby]

Yeah i see where you are coming from. But i just get frustrated when people think that form applications are directly usabale exactly as in the form and then critize based on that. We also have same kind of "basic application" from the form that probably seem to have many hole's when presented as such, but these small changes that my sifu is showing there is examples how to make them work. There are many other examples also, that will come up when you train the movements against resisting opponents who do different things. The basic application is always there, but it is applied to fit situations, change (not only for Bagua ).

Pointing out hole's and calling stuff laughable is two different things.

[Adam S]

1st let me clarify I dont do Baji

I thought Kurts criticism based on the guy leaving his arm there were valid but the first move in is a very good one



PS Nice one Ron

[bailewen]

BajiNooby,

I thought it was kind of cool that when I went looking for the seminar clips, the first one I found had master Lu demonstrating almost the exact same techniques as the Italian guy. I also agree that it's silly to criticize a couple of random form applications out of context but I guess I read Kurt's tone a little different from yours. It's easy to mistake him for some sort of CMA hating MMA freak but really he's a closet Baji-head himself. Think of his harsh critique as a form of "tough love".

You get frustrated with out of context overly harsh critiques? He gets frustrated by endless streams of demos on crash test dummies that do not move, even in slow motion, with any sort of realistic reaction.

Also, Adam, yes indeed. The entry is still pretty nice. Basic "hair combing" when you get down to it. It's the follow up that some of is don't like. ..in the Italian clips anyways. I thought Lu's demo was pretty slick.