training with weapons in mind (military/simulation)

[Areios]

it's hard to see about the legion some extended vids on traning but in some they show that they are training it.

if you watch a few vids about them (wich are more doc style) you can finde them.

[Darthwing Teorist]

The logic behind using BJJ is good: it is a good testing ground and sport promotes fighting spirit.

On the other hand, while it makes sense that they should train grappling for H2H because otherwise they would use their weapons, there is no reason why they shouldn't train striking too (they probably do, but not in that session).

MMA from a clinch would be more like it. End the fight faster.

[Chanchu]

Yes brutal stuff in that link, I think it is happening in Iraq more than most would think, like I said I make it a point to ask the folks who I run into who have deployed what it is that they needed that they did not have and many say H2H TX. Most afrey's are not that brutal but it does happen I think best to be prepared if you have to go there. I talked to a AF medic I know well, who came back- he told me he wished he had taken me up on the offer I made to take him to a CLF master I know to train combat skill for about a year before he was deployed with Army Airborne. He told me " you can't alway shoot people you are forced to control, have to handle them with non lethal force and a knife will often come out when you try to do that." Related that he saw many instances of the need for H2H skills but that's admittedly thats just one guy and anecdotal.
If you know people or run into people who have returned and enter into a conversation- may ask them their opion on the need, thats what I do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr5VznacMJM

S/D training in Iraq by contractors- makes the point on indoctrinating avoiding lethal force..

[Andy_S]

Chanchu:

SNIP
He told me " you can't alway shoot people you are forced to control, have to handle them with non lethal force and a knife will often come out when you try to do that." Related that he saw many instances of the need for H2H skills but that's admittedly thats just one guy and anecdotal.
SNIP

This is my understanding of the functional use of military H2H: ie crowd control, POW control, snatch operations where lethal force defeats the purpose.

As you know, I have written one book on the Korean War, and am working on another. A lot of vets tell me "It was hand to hand!" but when you interview them closely, you realise that they did not come to fist blows; what they mean was the enemy was very close. The incidents of ACTUAL H2H I have recorded thus far amount to three. And these were big battles like Imjin River and Chosin Reservoir - far larger in scale than anything in Iraq or Afghanistan, fought against an enemy who used close-range mass attack at night.

[yeniseri]

When it comes to battle, soldiers use projectile weapons - not unarmed combat.

When it comes to H2H fighting, it is about when things have gone horribly wrong (which has not happened in Afghan: I don't know of any allied units being overrun) or, more likely, when they are taking and securing prisoners, or other situations when there is no need for lethal force.

Moreover, sport BJJ tests fighting spirit: guts, aggression, will-to-win, durability, determination. Those who are good at this kind of training will probably do well in more severe combat. Those who are wimps and don't want to go H2H - well.

As the Iron Duke put it: "Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton."

MCMAP or any military H2H was never meant o replace weapons but a complement to it. It builds espirit de corps and serves as a method for defense. Even terrorists groups, when they show their propaganda video, they appear to be using TKD (a guess) as part of that recruiting guise!

[Chanchu]

http://www.realmilitaryflix.com/public/521.cfm

Heres some film of WWI H2H combat training, seems they used ju jitsu Tx way back in 1918 as well..

[Andy_S]

There again....modern combat that obviates H2H is pretty, well, modern.

As recently as the mid-19th century, cavalrymen could expect to engage in sword or lance combat, and infantry could expect to use their bayonets to charge or repell charges....they were the days!

The kind of skills the best of such men mastered would seem unbelievable to us today.

Key figures in the 1857 Indian Mutiny (or Indian War of Independence, if you prefer) included:
- John Nicholson, who once rode into a rebel camp, decapitated the leader, then rode out with his head in his saddle bag, and won fame for decapitating a tiger from horseback
- William "Raikes" Hodson, known as the best swordsman in the Army and a man who used to laugh and joke with his enemies in mid-combat (IOW, those "Three Musketeer" movies were not actually that far fetched after all) but whose preferred weapon in cavalry combat was....a hog hunting spear. His most famous exploit was riding, with 100 horsemen, into the midst of several thousand mutineers, demanding they disarm (they did), taking the two princes of Delhi captive, removing them from among the mutineers, then personally shooting (murdering, if you prefer) them both. Formidable chap.