interview with Master Sam FS Chin...

[ashe]

most of you guys are already pretty familiar with ILC but for those who aren't here's a new video introduction we just put up on the site. it originally appeared on a DVD that was put out by Kung Fu Magazine International. it was shot in Italy at the Centro Budokan Aikido Dojo. sort of a nice overview of the art.

http://iliqchuan.com/content/welcome-i-liq-chuan

[Steve Rowe]

A good interview, thanks for that Ashe..

[GrahamB]

He mentions the "four elements" - earth, fire, water and air. Is that based on the Greek model, rather than the typical Chinese 5 element theory?

[middleway]

He mentions the "four elements" - earth, fire, water and air. Is that based on the Greek model, rather than the typical Chinese 5 element theory?

Isnt that from Buddhist thought, where as 5 elements are from Taoist ... I dont actually have a clue but that was my assumption. lol

cheers
Chris

[GrahamB]

According to the Source Of All Knowledge (i.e Wikipedia) they are essentially the same thing:

"The most frequently occurring theory of classical elements, held by the Hindu, Buddhist, Japanese and Greek systems of thought, is that there are five elements, namely Earth, Water, Air, Fire, and a fifth element known variously as space, Idea, Void "quintessence" or Aether (the term "quintessence" derives from "quint" meaning "fifth").
In Greek thought the philosopher Aristotle added aether as the quintessence, reasoning that whereas fire, earth, air, and water were earthly and corruptible, since no changes had been perceived in the heavenly regions, the stars cannot be made out of any of the four elements but must be made of a different, unchangeable, heavenly substance.[1]
The concept of essentially the same five elements was similarly found in ancient India, where they formed a basis of analysis in both Hinduism and Buddhism. In Hinduism, particularly in an esoteric context, the four states-of-matter describe matter, and a fifth element describes that which was beyond the material world (non-matter). Similar lists existed in ancient China and Japan. In Buddhism the four great elements, to which two others are sometimes added, are not viewed as substances, but as categories of sensory experience.
[edit]"

[middleway]

ahhh ok! shows what i know! I will stick to punching things.

cheers
Chris

[GrahamB]

All these theories are incorrect, as they miss out the most important element of all: beer.

[yusuf]

since it is only brits who are replying .. gentle nudge.. Sam is here in teh UK this weekend..

[GrahamB]

I hope it goes well.

[ashe]

He mentions the "four elements" - earth, fire, water and air. Is that based on the Greek model, rather than the typical Chinese 5 element theory?

Isnt that from Buddhist thought, where as 5 elements are from Taoist ... I dont actually have a clue but that was my assumption. lol

cheers
Chris

yes it's from buddhist thought, but the elements aren't always meant to be thought of in a literal sense.

earth- all things have some degree of solidity / mass which can be felt
fire- all things have some degree of heat / temperature
air - can be viewed as change
water - can be either movement or literally some degree of moisture

[Jingang]

The chinese don't use elements, they use movements. The five movements (wu xing - wood, fire, earth, metal, water) represent characteristics of movements.

[Michael]

According to the Source Of All Knowledge (i.e Wikipedia) they are essentially the same thing:

Hey Graham, Jingang basically cleared this up, but just to be sure it is clear, they are NOT the same thing. Wu Xing is not the same as the four elements listed any more than Ford is the same as Chevrolet because they're both cars or, in the parlance of the isles, Brighton is the same as Aberdeen because they're both sea towns.