Wonderland

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Wonderland

Postby KEND on Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:11 am

If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?”
― Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

Donald Trump Accuses ‘Fake Media’ Of Not Reporting An Actual Fake News Story
Again.
19/10/2017
Chris York Senior Editor, HuffPost UK
Donald Trump has once again asserted that Hillary Clinton sold uranium to Russia in exchange for donations to a charitable foundation bearing her name.
Despite the story being widely debunked when it surfaced last year, the President of the United States attacked the “fake media” for not reporting it.
In brief, the original accusation - in a book written by a Breitbart editor-at-large - is that as Secretary of State under President Obama, Clinton green-lighted the purchase of mining company, Uranium One, by Russia’s nuclear agency, Rosatom, at the same time as the Clinton Foundation received $145 million in donations from nine people associated with company.
This, allegedly, gave Russia 20 per cent of the US’s uranium whilst simultaneously lining the pockets of the Clinton.
Only it didn’t.
The falsehood remains a favourite of right-wing and conspiratorial websites who conveniently ignore that:
Clinton did not have veto power over the deal as she was one of nine people involved on the panel that deals with such decisions
Clinton may not have even been involved in the decision-making process as she “never intervened” on such matters
Any uranium could not and has not been exported or given to Russia as it remains under the control of American subsidiaries, as stated by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission
Of the $145 million, most of it, $131.3 million, came from Frank Giustra who sold of his entire stake in Uranium One in 2007, 18 months before Clinton became Secretary of State and three years before the Russia deal
The Clinton Administration has been justifiably criticised for not disclosing donations
Trump has often made the claim but his latest outburst may well have been prompted by further details recently published in The Hill, which obtained evidence that Rosatom was being investigated for corruption by numerous US agencies at the time of the deal.
It also reports:
“They also obtained an eyewitness account — backed by documents — indicating Russian nuclear officials had routed millions of dollars to the US designed to benefit former President Bill Clinton’s charitable foundation during the time Secretary of State Hillary Clinton served on a government body that provided a favourable decision to Moscow, sources told The Hill.”
Again, this is being seized upon by conspiracy websites - and the President of the United States.
But the piece details nothing new to suggest Clinton received money to green-light the deal or that any American uranium is now in the possession of Russia.
It is in fact more an expose of the “bribery, kickbacks, extortion and money laundering” used by Russian, state-owned organisations.
Trump continued the fake news theme shortly after his tweet about Clinton when he retweeted this:
Trump may well be simply trying to deflect attention from a number of controversies he has found himself embroiled in this week.
He has been forced to hastily send a cheque for $25,000 to the father of a slain US Army sergeant after it emerged the US President had personally promised the money and not followed through with the offer.
On Wednesday, Trump denied an account by Representative Frederica Wilson of Florida that he had told the widow of Sergeant La David T. Johnson, who was killed in a firefight in Niger, that the man knew “what he signed up for.”
“I didn’t say what that congresswoman said,” Trump told reporters earlier in the day. “I had a very nice conversation with the woman, with the wife who ... sounded like a lovely woman,” he said.
Sergeant Johnson’s mother, Cowanda Jones-Johnson, told The Washington Post on Wednesday that she was present during Trump’s call to her son’s widow and she supported the congresswoman’s account of Trump’s comment.
“President Trump did disrespect my son and my daughter and also me and my husband,” Jones-Johnson said.
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Re: Wonderland

Postby Michael on Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:40 am

Story seems to really be breaking in the other direction.

Uranium & Diarrhea, Inc
Mark Steyn Online

https://www.steynonline.com/8207/uranium-diarrhea-inc
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Re: Wonderland

Postby Steve James on Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:09 am

https://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton- ... ssia-deal/

I didn't read Huffington Post or Info wars.

The irony is that if Trump sells stuff to Russia, his guys (and their bots) will say it's a great thing. But I wonder why he's encouraging an investigation of Clinton. It's more than whataboutism. And I know it'll be easy to find blogs and websitese with please to lock her up for unauthorized email servers, the deaths at Bengazi, general dishonesty, and being married to Bill.
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Re: Wonderland

Postby Steve James on Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:12 am

"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
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Re: Wonderland

Postby Michael on Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:47 am

Image

Evidence is mounting, will have to wait and see about conclusions, but ironically the pieces so far against Clintons so far are all more substantial than allegations about Trump-Russia Collusion.
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Re: Wonderland

Postby Steve James on Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:20 am

Well, I guess the argument is that snopes is just another outlet of the msm. So, there's probably no source that you'd accept that didn't come to your conclusion about Clinton.

The problem is that you (I mean wherever you got the info from) are using it to absolve Trump. There's no doubt that his representatives accepted contacts with Russian business and political representatives during the campaign. Whether that is "collusion" or not depends on what we're talking about. Trump, himself, said that someone told his people that they had info on Hillary. He said "most people would have taken that meeting."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd8qAvlDLGs

Personally, I don't think "anyone" would have taken that meeting. But, it shows exactly how DT thinks, and we know his moral standards already. But, ok, it was just a meeting --though he'd earlier claimed that "no one" from his campaign staff ever met with Russians. Turns out that almost everyone met with or made contact. That's not in question. The question is really why they were meetng.

If it was about the election, there'd be nothing wrong with that --he says. If it were about business, how could it be wrong? Trump was negotiating for a Trump Tower in Moscow. But, if the Russians were trying to manipulate the election, that'd be another kettle of fish.

The Hillary-Russia claim is about money, right? It might be about her using her office for personal gain. See, if Hillary uses her office to make money, it's wrong. If DT does it, it's good business. If Hillary uses her own server, it's treason. If Jared and Ivanka do, it's fake news. It's true, just fake.

Finally, about the picture posted. 1. How would you know what the msm outlets report unless you read or watched them? 2. You conveniently FOX "news," and in fact the story about Hillary has been covered by other outlets. For example.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFSZ3mD7ans


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx50ee2j9CQ

Anyway, I'm sure they'll be talking about putting Clinton in jail. This will go on for the next four years just like birtherism. It's a good tactic because the truth is not the point, nor does it matter. All that's needed is to keep repeating it. The msm is unnecessary.
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Re: Wonderland

Postby Michael on Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:32 am

I don't get what you're saying about Snopes in relation to the MSM.

No, I haven't made any conclusions, I'm waiting to see what comes out of it. There's always hype and a lot of information to look at and I'm noting that the initial onslaught of info. about the Clintons is much more substantial than almost a year about Trump-Russia collusion.

Finally, about the picture posted. 1. How would you know what the msm outlets report unless you read or watched them?

Reporting about reporting.

2. You conveniently FOX "news," and in fact the story about Hillary has been covered by other outlets. For example.

Do you mean the jpeg doesn't include FOX?
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Re: Wonderland

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:52 pm

Nobody's covering it because it's a non story
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Re: Wonderland

Postby Steve James on Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:07 pm

I meant and showed that the msm, including FOX, had reported it. Slopes also covered the claims. If you don't accept its conclusions, then you are just looking for a source that confirms what you want to believe.

But, again, it has nothing to do with Trumps association with Russians. It doesn't make it better or worse.
Last edited by Steve James on Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wonderland

Postby Michael on Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:19 pm

That's how people usually present Snopes, like it's some kind of final word. No, I don't accept that it is generally a final word or that specifically its conclusions are correct here. It is just another opinion group drawing conclusions from a variety of sources.
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Re: Wonderland

Postby Steve James on Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:52 pm

Exactly. The msm is untrustworthy and the conclusions that Snopes present are just opinions. Therefore, you don't accept either. Fine. That doesn't change the fact that the msm, including the networks in the picture you posted and FOX, has reported on it. The pic was a lie that you wanted to believe. And the objective of its creator was to spread it.

It's an example of fake news because it isn't true.
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Re: Wonderland

Postby Steve James on Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:38 pm


https://youtube.com/watch?v=vUod8yzzvvc

DT also believes Clinton is a sleaze in business. Ya know what that means?
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Re: Wonderland

Postby Michael on Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:31 pm

Steve James wrote:The pic was a lie that you wanted to believe. And the objective of its creator was to spread it.

Yeah, you're right, I didn't check it and it was an obvious exaggeration or outright lie. My bad. :-[
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Re: Wonderland

Postby Steve James on Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:42 am

It's not just you. It happens to everyone, and allows people to be exploited. There was a story about loggers in Brazil cutting down the "oldest tree in the world." People on Facebook were screaming in outrage at each other about everything from climate change to DT's effect on the environment. Turns out that the story was fake -meaning untrue. The purpose of the article was to create mistrust and anger among the people.
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Re: Wonderland

Postby Michael on Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:15 am

Clinton campaign, DNC paid for research that led to Russia dossier

Washington Post

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... story.html?
Last edited by Michael on Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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