The Islamic State

[Steve James]

Well, as you said, it's not really "racism." So, I think that the word is being tossed around too freely. However, my point was based on the lack of racism: i.e., that, if it was meant to be "racist" (and that's a slightly different question), it's still just prejudice. In fact, I was arguing that it may be worse than racism: i.e., make even less sense, since there are plenty of blonde, blue-eye Muslims as well as Asian ones and curly-haired African types. After all, some Americans made little difference between Obama and Osama. Muslim, for them, meaning something or someone who "wasn't" something (like them).

But, hey, calling it racism and treating it the same is fine with me.

[bailewen]

Well I don't what to call it other than tasteless and dangerous (see WW's post)

And on that note,

Yes:

...the possibility, has already become a reality

I knew about the story you posted. My larger point being, for any given muslim/middle-easterner/Sikh(most American's can't tell the difference)/etc. . . since it's already become a reality for some, it's a possibility for all.

[amor]

This "Islamic" state has proceeded to destroy shrines to sacred personalities to Shia and Sunni Muslims. Murdered Shias and any Sunnis who won't tow their lines.

I hope the media can finally stop with the "it's a sectarian war" bullshit. ISIS doesn't really fall into the Sunni-Shia spectrum by Muslim standards.

Don't hate the players, hate the paymaster

http://countercurrentnews.com/2014/06/i ... hn-mccain/

This part is pretty hilarious: "“It was a very moving experience to meet these fighters who have been struggling now for over two years,” McCain said on CNN’s “Anderson Cooper 360 " - mcain

[zenshiite]

Well, as you said, it's not really "racism." So, I think that the word is being tossed around too freely. However, my point was based on the lack of racism: i.e., that, if it was meant to be "racist" (and that's a slightly different question), it's still just prejudice. In fact, I was arguing that it may be worse than racism: i.e., make even less sense, since there are plenty of blonde, blue-eye Muslims as well as Asian ones and curly-haired African types. After all, some Americans made little difference between Obama and Osama. Muslim, for them, meaning something or someone who "wasn't" something (like them).

But, hey, calling it racism and treating it the same is fine with me.

As a blue-eyed, light-skinned, European descended, All-American as apple pie Muslim... I do think the tasteless cracks as Muslims generally are racist. Because the joker is not thinking of me when they make these jokes. They are thinking of a sort of vague mysterious range of brown people from North Africa to the Indian Subcontinent when they crack such jokes. The "Islam isn't a race" defense falls short, when you know that the prejudice expressed is aimed primarily at brown people, "towelheads" in particular.

I would agree, however, bigotry of this sort over beliefs, religious ones in particular, is potentially worse. The "ticking timebomb" "sleeper agent" mentality is very troubling for me personally. I get very livid when I see candidates for Congressional seats talking about how my religion doesn't deserve to be protected under the 1st Amendment because it's not really a religion but a political ideology "with a religious component." It is and isn't racism. Because it's got a twofold reality, the candidate is surely thinking about brown "others" and not the rainbow of Muslims worldwide when he says what he says. But it effects that entire rainbow.

[Steve James]

The "Islam isn't a race" defense falls short, when you know that the prejudice expressed is aimed primarily at brown people, "towelheads" in particular.

You forgot sand-niggers. But, my point was that it doesn't make anything worse to call it racism. And, I well know that many "White" (and other) people in the US associate Muslim and Arab with "non-White" so the association has "racial" under and overtones. Knowing that the association is false, and is based not on race but on beliefs, I think that the accusation of "racism" works both ways. Iow, condemning a group because of its beliefs is either racist or it isn't by definition. Either way it's a form of ignorance. I say that when one knows better, that it's worse than racism.

Hey, anti-Semitism can be considered racism too. I tend to think that it just gets confused with each side accusing the other of the same thing.

[emptycloud]

Its weird all this islam, christian, white, black, brown, jew, hindu, Canadian, Iranian, left, right, male, female,etc, thing... because it would appear to me that we live in paradise right now if we want it, we got air, water, earth, fruit, vegetables, etc.

We throw away this awesome abundance freely given, and choose to blow each other up because of, well,ideas, beliefs, thoughts, special identity addiction..

Seems like we're pretty f**kin' stoopid... to throw away paradise here and now, and slaughter each other for some dumb ideas of special identity.

Who gives a f**k what anyone believes, we got trees and seeds and sun and rain and incredible shit to be getting on with...

perhaps I accidentally evolved on mushrooms or something...man, its like waiting around till the last moron finally shoots himself then we can all just chill out and live freely without having to be some kind of special identity freak.

your naively and patiently

Rich

[zenshiite]

Its weird all this islam, christian, white, black, brown, jew, hindu, Canadian, Iranian, left, right, male, female,etc, thing... because it would appear to me that we live in paradise right now if we want it, we got air, water, earth, fruit, vegetables, etc.

We throw away this awesome abundance freely given, and choose to blow each other up because of, well,ideas, beliefs, thoughts, special identity addiction..

Seems like we're pretty f**kin' stoopid... to throw away paradise here and now, and slaughter each other for some dumb ideas of special identity.

Who gives a f**k what anyone believes, we got trees and seeds and sun and rain and incredible shit to be getting on with...

perhaps I accidentally evolved on mushrooms or something...man, its like waiting around till the last moron finally shoots himself then we can all just chill out and live freely without having to be some kind of special identity freak.

your naively and patiently

Rich

The irony is the Qur'an has an entire chapter devoted to essentially saying "live and let live." It was addressed to the polytheist Arabs of Mecca who were violently opposed to Muhammad's teaching to a very few people. "You do your thing and leave us in peace, we'll do our thing and leave you in peace." At least, that's what I take from it in light of other parts of the Qur'an telling me not to be an aggressor and only to fight against those that attack me.


Surah al-Kafiroon

Say: O unbelievers!
I do not serve that which you serve,
Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:
Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,
Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:
You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.

[grzegorz]

It seems that the first Bush knew what he was doing when be decided to stay out of Iraq. Too bad the apple fell far from the tree.

[Michael]

They need at least 20-25 years of chaos in Iraq in order to create a new culture and bring up at least one generation into it.

In Vietnam, it took decades to create social conditions via war that required everyone to choose a side and then fight, resulting in a centralized government from a country of stone age people who were wholly independent in their villages prior to the wars.

Iraq was already centralized, but there was a strong sense of nationalism and mostly Islamic culture in a secular society, and that has been under attack since 1991. It takes at least 25 years for the country to be mad weak enough for thugs like Isis to waltz in and do their part, which is to make everyone choose sides and get re-organized.

[Dajenarit]

Sad but i think true. If you want to avoid bloodshed you have to be willing to compromise but i doubt that'll happen. So they'll draw battle lines and decide that way. When they get tired of seeing blood and death the new borders will be where ever the guns drop. Bout the dumbest yet most oft used way to settle things in ''society''.

[bailewen]

Well the British drew the maps to intentionally create instability.

The last time the area was truly stable was probably the Ottoman Empire. Then came WWI and that was gone. Then they would have been a bunch of stable British and French colonies except after WWI, colonialism was officially a taboo so they settled for drawing maps and empowering minority groups that would allow them to keep de-facto control.

is. the violence over the is almost entirely "our" fault.

[Michael]

the violence over the is almost entirely "our" fault.

That's what I think and I don't think it's a coincidence.

[Azer]

^^^ Yep

The list of calamities and disasters orchestrated by former/current European powers and their proxies is quite substantial. Considering that many such malevolent acts were undertaken during what we could consider a 'civilised' age, it's amusing to see the same powers now preaching morals and civility in defence of their interests and perpetuation of various establishments.

In particular, I've recently been paying a lot of attention to the Australian government's buffoons - Tony Abbott and Co. Their disparaging remarks on immigrants and indigenous peoples is really something to behold, particularly in view of the past genocides and continuing abuses. What really cracks me up is when they start spouting nonsense like "Christian nation and values" and demanding immigrants integrate or leave. Laughable, hypocritical assholes.

Of course, many civilisations, nations, etc, committed all sorts of abhorrent acts throughout history, but I guess humans tend to remember the most recent most clearly and it is certainly quite prevalent amongst non-ethnic Brits, though they don't tend to express these grievances very vocally, particularly to indigenous Brits.

[Finny]

I hope you won't judge us too harshly for Tony - plenty of us didn't vote for him.

Unfortunately he does represent a significant chunk of our population - entitled, ignorant and bigoted.

Sorry.

[Azer]

Oh hey, don't get me wrong I got plenty of open minded and pro multi cultural Aussie mates, without their incessant taking the piss out of Tony and circulating his idiocy as well as various positive action campaigns, I'd been none the wiser.