trashy romance novels...

[klonk]

The ghost of her father appears to her in Helsingor (Elsinore). Let's keep this original.

[Interloper]

If segler was writing this it would be a four-way by page 3!

GrahamB wrote:If segler was in this it would be finished by page 3!

fixed.

Segs would never succeed as a writer of "women's porn," then.

A major requirement of bodice rippers/Gothic romance novels is that they be a slow tease. Women like to be worked up gradually, doncha know. Plus, it has to be on their terms -- can't be threatening. They have to WANT to be taken. The scenarios and characters have to be such that by chapter 11, the protagonist (and the reader) is in a high frenzy of repressed lust and passion, yearning for the leading male character to take her by (controlled, non-threatening) force like Clark Gable in "Gone with the Wind."

The way in which the female protagonist is taken (note: in bodice rippers, the female is never the initiator; she is always "taken" one way or another) is determined by her personality: a) a spoiled brat who needs comeuppance, b) a sweet, innocent ingenue who needs protecting and gentle initiation c) a headstrong and capable but "missing something in her life" adventuress who needs hot, passionate taking in, say, the back of a Humvee on the African veldt after hunting a rogue lion. There are a few more variations, but those are three major ones.

Aaaanyway. My take on it all.

[GrahamB]

[Interloper]

But no. Interloper has established a three dimensional character (heaving boobs count for one of three) and should be allowed to finish her story.
So...show us a surprise ending here...

But Klonk, Gothic romances NEVER have a surprise ending. Remember: Formula. The readership would be pissed off, if you messed with the Formula.

IMO, Bodice Rippers aren't porn, because "porn" is more exploitive of women, while these novels allow the female character (and, vicariously, the female reader) to actually be in control of her sexuality and to participate in sex equally and to enjoy it, even though it looks like the man is in control of her. She lusts after him, whether she is conscious of it or not.

It's not really a so-called rape fantasy, because it is all about sexuality, passion, and lust in a controlled, predictable setting with no surprises. Rape, by contrast, is about taking out rage and hatred against women onto an individual victim who in no way wants to be a part of it.

You guys sound like a bunch of chicks waiting for the next serial installment in "Cosmo."
I'll write a climax (no, not THAT kind, you dirty-minded schoolboys) and ending, sticking close to the Formula, though not religiously, when I have time around the Thanksgiving holiday.

I have to. If I leave it to you, it will turn into one of those stories out of "Hustler" magazine. Yeah, I've read some. Back in my college days.

[gretel]

I believe there is such a thing as porn for women. i think it's called erotic literature. it isn't the romance novel. i myself know nothing about it. and anyway we aren't going to share with guys.

gretel

[Dmitri]

i myself know nothing about it.

Aha, yeah, sure... (just kidding)

and anyway we aren't going to share with guys.

Fine, be that way!!

Interloper, don't listen to that. Your frankness is quite appreciated here by many I'm sure.

[Interloper]

I believe there is such a thing as porn for women. i think it's called erotic literature. it isn't the romance novel. i myself know nothing about it. and anyway we aren't going to share with guys.

gretel

gretel,
I think it's a matter of how you define "pornography." In my perspective, real pornography is the stuff that does exploit women (or children of either sex), objectifies and humiliates them, and is often violent -- physically, emotionally -- toward women (or children of either sex). But I realize there is a much broader interpretation of the word that has come to signify any kind of sex literature, photography or art that depicts the sex act, genitals and body parts considered to be sex-related (e.g. breasts, buttocks), and "lewd" or strongly suggestive symbolism.

"Erotic literature" is a much better term than porn, IMO, when describing the bodice-ripper genre or any other sexual materials in which there is an underlying romanticism and the woman is either not being exploited (i.e. she is an equal partner, albeit not always in a visible way) or at least is using the man as much as the man is using her.

[cerebus]

[quote="Interloper] If I leave it to you, it will turn into one of those stories out of "Hustler" magazine. Yeah, I've read some. Back in my college days. [/quote]

Hustler has stories?? Who knew....?

[cerebus]

[quote="Interloper] I think it's a matter of how you define "pornography." In my perspective, real pornography is the stuff that does exploit women (or children of either sex), objectifies and humiliates them, and is often violent -- physically, emotionally -- toward women (or children of either sex). But I realize there is a much broader interpretation of the word [/quote]

Wow. I've never had that definition of porn. That certainly is a type of porn, but one which is tremendously NOT to my liking. I think most people view the term "porn" as meaning something more like a "highly explicit depiction of sex". I have a variety of ex-girlfriends and female friends who watch porn (and refer to it as such), but who would be totally turned off by violent or degrading stuff (as would I). Porn is a very broad term, it doesn't always refer to the more extreme stuff...

[Interloper]

I don't disagree, cerebus. As I said, I realize there is a general interpretation of porn being anything dealing directly with the sex act (there's "soft-core" porn, and there's "hard-core"). But I see pornography as any material designed, through the exploitation of an individual or individuals, to elicit a sexual response from someone... whether it's the "missionary-style" sex act, or a person being physically abused in some way. Either way, the intent is to exploit the subject in order to excite the viewer. Pornography is in the eye of the beholder.

Hm. Maybe the term I really was thinking of was "obscenity," not "pornography.
Check this out:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... ition.html

[shawnsegler]

Writing down words of love for a woman is like an insult when the woman herself is there and waiting to be attended to.

When I give a sonnet to my lady it's composed on the spot as I hold her close and whisper it into her soon to be nibbled ear.

Damn, girl!

S

[Interloper]

Writing down words of love for a woman is like an insult when the woman herself is there and waiting to be attended to.

When I give a sonnet to my lady it's composed on the spot as I hold her close and whisper it into her soon to be nibbled ear.

Damn, girl!

S

You sound just like Smoove B!

[cerebus]

Heh, heh. Smoove S....

[Interloper]

Tom,
I meant to hyphenate "Cuthbert-Upwellington."
FYI

[gretel]

i do agree with interloper although i was using "porn" in the broader sense.
there is an erotic literature that aspires to be "literature," i.e., not trashy, and also aspires specifically to be arousing to women. i truthfully don't know any examples and yet i have heard a rumor that this is true.

gretel