the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Sure, but just understand that when you support these fights, whether through PPV or going to an establishment that shows the events or whatever, that you're helping to fund people who get paid millions of dollars to dominate other professional fighters and who use those skills to abuse others.

Bhassler wrote:Sure, but just understand that when you support these fights, whether through PPV or going to an establishment that shows the events or whatever, that you're helping to fund people who get paid millions of dollars to dominate other professional fighters and who use those skills to abuse others.

First, I am not as morally committed as you may be. They both have made racist comments, which I don't care for either.

Second, I didn't witness Floyd's multiple abuses. So, I am not sure what happened (wealthy people are targets). Both of them paid their sentences and fines. I know people who stream the fights. So, I generally don't help fund. Being two of the best fighters, I can't ignore watching their fights (admit somewhat selfish).

Many boxers, mma guys, and wrestlers have criminal records of some sort. Sonny Liston had been an enforcer. But, Ali went to jail, too. I wouldn't say that Conor shouldn't be allowed to work because he was a criminal. I think he shouldn't be allowed in the UFC because his actions risked the careers of other fighters. Two of the one he injured couldn't fight. He owes them their purses.

Steve,

I wouldn’t put Ali in the same category. While I disagree with the man on any number of things, he put his entire life on the line as a conscientious objector. He also paid for that with a three year suspension from boxing. And a loss of three years when in your prime is basically a lifetime. I have to give respect for that even if I disagree with his reasoning and actions.

The rest of these guys may be a bunch of punks, but Ali is a legend for standing up for something he believed in and paying for it.

I totally agree that Ali is nothing like Conor or Floyd. The only comparison would be that many people hated him because of his mouth. I agree with everything you said about him, and he's the only fighter/athlete whom I will ever admire.

My point was that boxing has a history of guys who've had run-ins with the law. This has never stopped them from returning to the ring. It's one of the few professions that doesn't ban convicts. So, I don't think Conor should be prevented from earning a living --even if he were caught with weed, coke, or steroids.

The first question is whether the UFC (etc) can find a way to punish Conor in a way that deters him and others from the type of actions that injures their fighters outside of competition. But, the real problem is the lightness of the sentence he received from the legal system. What he did was videotaped; injuries were recorded; there was damage to property. I think I'd be in jail without bail under the same circumstances. After I've paid my "debt to society," I should have a clean slate. I don't like Floyd or Conor that much anyway, but I apply the same principle with them as I would with someone I liked.

Steve James wrote:Many boxers, mma guys, and wrestlers have criminal records of some sort. Sonny Liston had been an enforcer. But, Ali went to jail, too. I wouldn't say that Conor shouldn't be allowed to work because he was a criminal. I think he shouldn't be allowed in the UFC because his actions risked the careers of other fighters. Two of the one he injured couldn't fight. He owes them their purses.

It's not really a question of "should" or "shouldn't". People's actions reflect their true values. That holds true for Conor, it holds true for Dana White, and it holds true for us as consumers. If nobody watched or bet on a Floyd Mayweather fight because he's an asshole, and the money dried up, then other athletes and entertainers would take notice and regulate their behavior. As it is, the vast majority of people really don't care and just want to be entertained, so the money continues to flow.

The world is a fucked up place, and the biggest reason for that is that we, collectively, like it that way.

It's not really a question of "should" or "shouldn't". People's actions reflect their true values.

That is correct; should and shouldn't are contrary to fact. There are only is and isn't. I also agree that people act according to their values. Where one's treasure is, their heart is too. The fact is that people will pay to see Conor.

The world is a fucked up place, and the biggest reason for that is that we, collectively, like it that way.

The "world" is fine. Some people on it are fucked up, but nowhere close to most. Yes, values here are based on profit, not morality. And, I think it's somewhat true that some people will like Conor more because he's a bad boy big mouth. However, he's only in that position because of his skills, and I believe that is what attracts his fans. Of course, they will accept his bad behavior; but, I haven't heard any of them say that he was right to do what he did.

Now, where I'm with you, I think, is that Conor (and a lot of other public figures, in fact) are terrible role models --as representatives of 'martial arts' or just good, honest people. I could never look up to them or want to be like them, whatever the benefit. There are far more people who act like Conor than have anything close to his ability. Otoh, Conor puts on an act, too. People will pay for the performance. (I never have, and I think there are others like me).

I treat the MMA the same as WWF its entertainment, a bad guy one day is a good guy the next, some fans get emotionally attached to fighters, just enjoy the spectacle,

Law aside, this is now confirmed!

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2018/8/3/17 ... al-ufc-229

If this fight actually happens we get to see arguably the best striker go against arguably the best grappler. It’s a long time since there has been a matchup quite like this.

I say Nurmagomedov simply because he is the tougher of the two both mentally and physically. When skills cancel each other out that’s what it comes down to.