Insurance Co Tryin to Scam Me?

[cerebus]

Well, today was completely shitty. I washed & waxed by motorcycle, had her lookin' like new, then went out for a ride. I was havin' a great day and decided to check out this local bookstore, so I park out front and go in to browse. Pretty soon the cashier comes running up & says that someone just backed their car into my bike! I run out and yup, there was my baby on the pavement, broken plastic littering the area!

Well, to make a long story short, the car driver admitted fault, her insurance co (same as mine) admits she was at fault..... BUT..... here's what they're tellin' me:
They're going to send someone out to look at the bike and make an estimate of the damages. If it's going to cost more to fix than what they say the bike is worth (my bike is a GORGEOUS classic 1987 Kawasaki EX 500 with only 7,000 miles, which I have babied tremendously), then they said they will call it a complete loss, pay me what they say the bike is worth and have me sign it over to them (in effect, "buying" it from me). I told the woman, "Hell no. I don't want to SELL it, I want it repaired!"

Can they legally just pay the lesser cost if the repair estimate is more than their estimated value of the bike? It was THEIR client's fault the bike is messed up, I shouldn't be penalized for that!!

[Brady]

They can, and that sucks man. Good luck, I remember that bike was a thing of beauty.

[cerebus]

They can, and that sucks man. Good luck, I remember that bike was a thing of beauty.

Ah Hell, screw that! I'll get a lawyer if I have to. What kinda craziness IS that? If it'll cost more to fix than what they say it's worth, I HAVE TO sell it to them if I want to be compensated for the damages? That's just insane!!

[cerebus]

I just looked up the Kelley Blue Book value for an '87 EX 500 and it's only listed at $985!!!! My bike has only 7,000 miles on it and looked almost like new before the accident! I've had people offer me $3,000 for it. Can this insurance company really get away with just giving me $985 and demanding that I turn my bike over to them??!!

[fuga]

http://www.insure.com/car-insurance/car-totaling.html

[Rikimaru]

Put your effort into the estimation of the value of your bike. Try to find a professional or something.
The same story happened to a friend of mine. They evaluated his car (an old Audi - everything as new) about 50% of its real value, so he made a re-evaluation by a private company. They did a solid case about his car and he did not had to go to court to fix the issue. the insurance just gave up and negotiated in a much proper way. Be advise that it took about 2 month to fix this, and they are much likely to make you lose your time so you gave up by yourself.

I would suggest that you do the same, and if you can't win the case bring that lawyer

[klonk]

Yeah, it sucks, but what the usual insurance contract covers is only the average value of vehicles of the same make and model and year. It's in the fine print.

I dropped damage coverage on my '86 Beemer when I figured out all they would pay was a pittance, and now just carry liability & medical. Never mind that I've looked after it and it still hauls ass. Most people don't baby along a vehicle, and insurers bet averages and percentages.

You might attempt an offer something like this: "Okay, I'll take the Blue Book value if you will sell it back to me for the scrap value." Then... you get out your wrenches, one by one...

[David Boxen]

I highly doubt it will be worth your while to hire a lawyer.

[Chris Fleming]

Insurance companies by definition are trying to scam people. Insurance is one of the biggest rackets going.

[cerebus]

Well Hell, it's HER insurance, it was HER fault. I was just minding my own business, I was legally parked and everything. All I want is for my bike to be back in the condition it was in before the accident....

[cerebus]

Thanks for that article Pete! It sounds like, even if they only pay up the Blue Book value, I may still be able to keep the bike and get whatever repairs that amount will cover.

"If your car is declared a total loss but you want to have it repaired anyway, you should be able to retain it. Can your insurer decide to total your car despite your protests?
“We work the best we can with customers who elect to retain salvage in accordance with our policy language and state law,” McCollum explains.
Your insurer still has to pay you the car's actual cash value, minus the deductible and minus what the company would have gotten for it at the salvage yard. If you want to keep the car, you should alert your claims adjuster and insurance company right away. You're then going to have to pay for the repairs yourself."

And:
"most states require insurance companies to follow the "made whole" doctrine, meaning you should be restored to the same financial position you were in prior to the accident. If your car is declared a total loss but you want to have it repaired anyway, you should be able to retain it."

[fuga]

From a 2001 article (rules may have changed since then)
http://articles.latimes.com/2001/aug/22/news/hw-37019

Under rules set by the California Department of Insurance, insurers must base total loss payouts on "comps," the average of at least two comparable used vehicles sold or listed for sale within the last 90 days, said Tony Cignarale, supervising compliance officer at the department.

In practice, however, many insurers use valuation services to determine how much they will pay for totaled vehicles. The leading such company in the Southern California market is CCC Information Services Inc., according to industry sources. Among its clients is State Farm Mutual Automobile Insurance Co., the largest auto insurer in California, State Farm spokesman Dave Hurst said.

These valuation services provide their numbers exclusively to the insurance industry. That means that there is no way for a typical customer to examine whether CCC is providing fair estimates.

So see if you can find comparable cycle listed for sale in the past 90 days as a negotiating tool.

-pete

[cerebus]

Problem is, if it's already been sold, I would have no way of knowing about it (would no longer be listed for sale)...

[fuga]

it also says listed for sale

-pete

[Bhassler]

You may be able to find a lawuer who will talk to you for free before you pursue anything. This is where those guys on the late night TV commercials come in handy-- my understanding is they're just assholes to deal with so insurance companies pay them rather than fight them forever-- the lawyer makes his money by handling a lot of cases and settling for smaller amounts than the more expensive attorneys. Keep in mind that the people on the settlement side (like the adjusters adjusters who come out to look at your bike) often don't know much and are just a bunch of yahoos-- incompetence is built into the system expressly for the purpose of confusing and frustrating you. Then the person who's assigned to your case will be competent but will also be operating under the assumption that everyone (including you) is trying to rip them off. It's a nasty, shitty business, and I honestly don't know how anyone could work for an insurance company and still respect themselves or get out of bed in the morning.

I speak from experience-- the difference being that I was on my motorcycle when it got wrecked by a careless driver. Insurance companies do everything they can to stack the deck against you, so don't be shy about enlisting whatever help you can find, and don't make the mistake of trying to play fair, because they won't be.