parenting question

[meeks]

ok - so my little girl (2/5 year old) is getting into a nasty habit of "I don't want to put socks on..." and refusing to get out of pajamas to change into clothes so we can go to work in the morning and take her to daycare. It doesn't have a huge toll on me, I just roll with it patiently and explain why we need to change our clothes or put socks on, and even coerce her with "if you put this shirt on I'll sing you a song" (which usually works, but not this morning). My wife Lin on the other hand...hoo boy.... she hits the ceiling. She starts yelling at our daughter and making cruel remarks in chinese ...'ni fan si li' (you trouble me to death...basically "you're a pain in the ass".... and 'cui si' (not sure what that one means) but the delivery tone is pure vile anger at our kid (which is another huge concern to me and over the last 3 weeks I've talked to her about it an average of 3x a week to which she responds with "I'm tired").

Anyways, I'm hoping to come up with a better approach to getting our daughter to listen to what we tell her. I suggested we read more to her, to which Lin shot off and said it's a waste of time.
I figure that sitting with our daughter calmly and reading to her will help to give her more attention and teach her to listen/pay more attention. I spend a lot of time playing with her in the evenings before and after dinner so it's not a lack of attention issue from our end. My main concern is Lin's 'sanity'. She's really starting to take out her issues on our daughter and flies off the handle at the daily 'chase around the room to brush her teeth', etc. After we dropped her off at daycare Lin mentioned to me that she wanted to hit our daughter, which to me is a huge flag that 1) Lin needs a break and 2) our daughter needs to behave. I don't believe in physical punishment for a small child that doesn't know any better.
We get to daycare and some parents mention it only takes them 30 minutes from the time they all wake up to the time they leave in the morning...we're about 2x that, and of course this is also being held over my head, but a lot of that is about getting our daughter to sit at the table and eat her breakfast instead of running around while I'm trying to get ready for work.
I appreciate that all kids are different and she's at that age but I would like some advice on keeping her understanding of listening to us at a better level.

[Bill]

Are there any parenting classes in your area?

[Steve James]

I don't know the ultimate answer, but I'd suggest that --whatever approach you decide on-- both parents must be on the same page, and be consistent. You could try one approach and then another, but I'm sure it won't help if you both disagree or argue about whatever you use.
Oh, btw, that's just addressing the child's issue. Afa your wife's getting upset goes, she definitely needs (to feel) your support. So, it might help to ask her what she thinks would solve the problem, and then do your best to provide that. If it doesn't work, then try something different.

[meeks]

Are there any parenting classes in your area?

I took a sleep training class (2 hour lecture) that was really effective. I've looked up courses on parenting but nothing really seems to fall into this category. What I found in the past is courses on managing anger (yours and your child's), managing stress (there's a few different courses on that), and other anger/stress related ones (that I feel if I recommend to my wife she'll have some excuse for not attending). As for ones that pertain to teaching a child to listen and coming up with approaches to 'working together' I've been unable to find that sort of class.

I don't know the ultimate answer, but I'd suggest that --whatever approach you decide on-- both parents must be on the same page, and be consistent.

that's an excellent point. we're NOT on the same page. I'm always 'friendly/patient cop' and she's always 'lose it cop' and we have discussions about our own approaches. When she does lose it on our daughter and I ask her to chill I get attacked because I say this gently in front of our daughter (eg: lin....*pause*...come on... [meaning come on, you're going to far]). When I bring it up later after our daughter goes to bed it's simply "I'm not sleeping well" or "you need to be tougher on her" (because I'm the patient/nurturing parent). I'm always the one having a talk with our daughter about listening to mommy and daddy (ie if there's an issue in the morning I'll talk to her about it then, and again when I pick her up from daycare in a calm, approachable, teaching manner). Lin will simply act like it never happened and will be happy to see our daughter and hug her etc.. but not address the issues with our daughter so I feel there's no real 'lesson' involved.

[fuga]

Meeks,

I think the way that you are handling it is the right way. Make it a game to get dressed. Race to see who can put their socks on fastest. Send her to daycare in her pjs, sockless and hungry once in a while. She's a small kid who is discovering a sense of self while navigating the world. Keep a cool head and realize that chaos rules.

Go to the library and check out some parenting books. Understand what other people do and how a child's brain and behavior develops. What she is doing right now is normal - testing limits, expressing her own identity. Also talk to the daycare providers about strategies, etc.

Give your wife a complete break from getting your daughter ready in the morning for a while. I know this will be tough, but step up to the challenge. It is okay for parents to have different parenting styles but each of those styles needs to be based off love and compassion. You need to be real open with your wife about what you see as the limits to discipline. Communicate clearly, hear her POV, repeat it back to her, and share in the difficulty and joy of raising a kid. (Also understand cultural issues around child rearing: my wife is Taiwanese.)

A momma's group might be good for your wife so she has other mothers to talk to about the struggles of parenting. A support network is actually real important in raising a kid. Also make sure your wife has opportunities to be by herself and do things that she wants to do. My wife does African dance several times a week and goes out with her friends 2-3 times per month.

-pete

ps - And yes read to your child as much as you can. It is an incredible shared experience and one that will pay off in her schooling and development.

[Dmitri]

Does Lin have a female friend to talk to about this stuff?

If you can (and if you haven't already), maybe find another family/friend with kid(s) of similar age, and hang out with them as often as you (she) can make it. Might help provide some different points of reference and perhaps (mutual) sympathy for the problems, maybe some ideas will surface as a result.

[meeks]

Give your wife a complete break from getting your daughter ready in the morning for a while

that's something I'm going to try. She usually does her breakfast while I get ready then I try to keep her busy while Lin gets ready. I was even thinking about getting a hotel room for Lin for the weekend so she can have a 'vacation' from us.
Personally I don't buy the "I'm tired/exhausted" excuse. She blames lack of sleep. I get an average of 5.5 - 6 hours sleep a night and she gets on average 8 - 8.5 hours. we both wake up when our daughter wakes up...I'm a super light sleeper and even from the other room I'll wake if she simply coughs.

[Wanderingdragon]

I would try two approaches that I have found work pretty well with raising children, both are all about treating them like people.

1. Make her think about her actions, go through YOUR "Why" stage with her and ask her why she won't do the things you and your wife consider important for her to do.
2. Your wife sounds like she might not go for this , but, Damn the images and let youer daughter go to school in the state that she allows you guys to get her to, no socks, so what ,PJs, OK, hair unkempt, Oh well, you and mom get yourselves ready for your days in the real world , while you explain that you like to look good when your friends and co-workers see you because it makes you happy. Take her to daycare tell you love her, keep every line of communication open, and be prepared once you get there, and maybe see a sad forlorn face, to take her home and get her ready, or even better spend the day with her being happy and coming to an understanding.

Kids are crazy and will drive you to madness if you let them

[meeks]

Does Lin have a female friend to talk to about this stuff?

If you can (and if you haven't already), maybe find another family/friend with kid(s) of similar age, and hang out with them as often as you (she) can make it. Might help provide some different points of reference and perhaps (mutual) sympathy for the problems, maybe some ideas will surface as a result.

not really. I don't find her super-social. she'll msn with her friends in China but not really stay in contact with any chinese friends she has here despite my attempts to get her 'out there' and make friends. Our friends with kids of a similar age have different schedules so it's difficult to hook up with them and Lin is only now really starting to go to the community center with our daughter on her day off together.

[jtan]

[GrahamB]

Meeks - if it's any help I was reading that going. Been there....yep..yep...am there...yep...yep. You are not alone. It's what bringing up kids is like. And all those parents who say their child is a little angel are probably lying to your wife - ignore them.

Support your wife, try to stay clam yourself, and remember, everything with kids is a phase. This too shall pass.

If you ignore the God stuff (unless it particularly resonates with you), the Serenity Prayer offers probably the best advice:


God, grant us the...
Serenity to accept things we cannot change,
Courage to change the things we can, and the
Wisdom to know the difference
Patience for the things that take time
Appreciation for all that we have, and
Tolerance for those with different struggles
Freedom to live beyond the limitations of our past ways, the
Ability to feel your love for us and our love for each other and the
Strength to get up and try again even when we feel it is hopeless.

[everything]

hmm. ok. here are some tips from parenting classes.

observations:
1. a 2 and 1/2 year old won't really really understand the "why". that takes a lot of maturity. nor can she quite understand a game at the level you want her to. she can however understand how to game your system. don't fall for this.
2. she is trying to assert her independence (terrible twos) to get some assertiveness and control and you want that (in the right way).

actions: to exploit these two facts, you need to
1) give her choices, but with tight constraints, e.g., "you can choose the blue top or the red top. which one do you choose?" (notice there is no choice for whining or temper tantrums but just positive choices she should like and she gets a sense of control. even adults are overwhelmed if presented with over 7 choices. imagine for a 2 year old how being overwhelmed and getting yelled at would just break you down).
2) use the "when ... then ..." rule and stick to it. Just say "when you stop screaming ... then you can have X, Y, or Z" or "when you change clothes, then we can have breakfast". Try to keep it as positive reinforcement if possible (the then condition is something she wants or gets to do). if you're willing to bite the bullet, she might have to have a consequence (one she won't like), such as missing a good breakfast, missing breakfast, getting her feet gross from no socks, going out in PJs (that one probably won't work but find something). you can also use this in the negative "when you choose to run around like that, then you don't get to finish breakfast" --- maybe make it something she likes, and you eat it. be absolutely sure there is no anger expressed - the goal is she makes the right choice, she learns and feels like she makes a good choice and gets a good result as a predictable consequence she can trust in the world, you get all that done on time, your wife controls her reaction.

that should help a bit. write back or PM if you want more details but that is the gist of what I remember for this particular issue. because you're under time constraints, you may also need to reset the environmental conditions so you have more time to do the above. that will be very difficult but anyone who can seriously study IMA can probably do it (but it's far harder...). basically go to sleep half an hour earlier and get up half an hour earlier temporarily.

wife: much more difficult subject. try to role-model the above (assuming it works for you) then discuss it with her later, much later. if you figure out that topic, please let us know, haha

[Darth Rock&Roll]

I haven't parented a 2-3 year old in 24 years!

But, kids are kids.

First, I think you need to talk with wifey and do seom level setting and let her do some level setting, then find the common ground.

I agree with you that being hurtful to a child in order to get them to do something isn't the best way to go about things.

So, you have to use your special daddy powers that in turn are also special mommy powers and ultimately, they are special kid powers.

1.) give mom a spa day once a month, mae a dinner or two if able and start socializing together with others and prefereably with others that have kids close in age to yours.

2) do the parenting class and directly ask about these issues

3) overwhelm the kid with the circus, wake up! we have to dress! do you want bright, brighter or brightest?! do you want daddy to choose? make oom pa pa sounds whilst fetching clothes and marching.

You'll only have to entertain her once in a while. But the younger they are the more fascinated they are with sound, colour and funky stuff. If you employ that little tiny bit of crazy and get a laugh, you're on your way.

Getting angry is a sign that there are other troubles. a little tiny kid really shouldn't have the power to make you angry. make you lol? yep, but angry = something else needs to be pressure valved and quick!

[The K Prodigy]

Clearly, your daughter doesn't respect you or your authority. You must force her to learn proper behavior, with your fists. What good is MA if you can't apply it to the real world, amirite?

On a serious note however, sleep habits vary from person to person, the 8 hour rule is actually less of a rule and more of a general guideline for most of the population. I do feel that you are correct in assuming that this is not the heart of the matter.

[meeks]

wife: much more difficult subject. try to role-model the above (assuming it works for you)

y...you mean I can trade her in for a different model??

I'll try the when/then a little more. I've been doing the light version of that already, but it has sort of fallen on deaf ears to an extent. I'm thinking maybe to get her dressed (for example) before she even has her morning glass of milk (the first thing she wants when she gets up in the morning) that would be a good bargaining chip....rather than trying to deal with it after she's had breakfast and 'we gotta go...'