parenting question

[shawnsegler]

Moving around a lot was pretty much the most miserable part of my childhood. I don't think any child should have to do that once let alone a bunch of time. My ex-wife had the same problem and we both hate the idea of our son going through that so much that we've gone way out of our way to be civil and to try and pull together and have a stable school/living friends situation for him. It's the main reason I'm still here in Portland with the job situation sucking so much.

It's worked out great. He's a sweet well adjusted kid, and I couldn't ask for any blessing that deserves more to have manifested than that.

S- has and still continues to put everything he can into being a good dad.

[DeusTrismegistus]

I have no kids. I do help my teacher with his kids classes and he has taught me a lot. There has been some good advice in this thread so far.

Kids will test boundaries and they will find every way possible around a rule, I know, I was good at it However, nice you might want to be and however much you may feel that you should be kind and understanding there will come times when you might have to go old school. The popular view now is that physical punishment is not socially acceptable, I personally say bullshit. Should it be used often, no. Should it be the default response, no. Should it ever cause actual harm to the child, no. However as someone who had my fair share of whoopins I will say that sometimes I deserved it, and sometimes that was the only thing that kept me in line. Now I am not saying that you should use physical punishment in this case. However sometimes you have to be hard to get results. Other times you have to be easy. Just like good taiji, its a blending of hard and soft approaches that gets the best results.

Choices are good, but all choices have consequences. Good choices have good consequences, bad choices have bad consequences. As a parent you get to decide what those consequences are. If good choices have good outcomes but bad choices have indifferent or even favorable outcomes then the child will have incentive to do the good things but no incentive not to do the bad things. As an example, daughter runs around and won't get dressed. Since she won't get dressed she gets offered a reward for doing what you ask, you sing a song. So if she gets dressed without you asking, she gets no song. If she misbehaves first, then behaves she gets a song. The bad behavior will indirectly be reinforced.

More than likely your daughter morning antics are like a game to her. She is playing a game where she sees what she can get away with. If you make it to where it is not a game, then she won't want to play. Punishment of some sort might be the only way to get the initial response you want. If you have to punish her in some way, maybe no breakfast, maybe go to class in her PJs, maybe something else; the next morning you can tell her that is she gets ready without misbehaving she will get something for it. This shouldn't be a standard thing but let her know that if she behaves well there is rewards and if she behaves badly there is punishment, or negative consequences. Children need authority in their lives and that authority should be consistent, fair, merciful, and just. A too relaxed of an approach to authority can lead to problems, as can an overwhelming authority.

I am at an age where some of the people my age were raised with a more firm approach and some were raised in the very emo everything is ok approach. The kids that I help my teacher with in class are mostly of a more lenient approach and it is apparent. There are definite problems with the firmer and harsher approach if taken too far but there are also problems if the other method is taken too far. Kids that cannot accept healthy criticism, that cannot handle healthy competition are two examples. Everyone wins sounds good in theory but it isn't true in life. Kids don't have the mental toughness that they did when most of us here on RSF were growing up.

It is no coincidence that Buddhism has its Middle Path, Kaballah its Middle Pillar, and Taoism its Taiji. Just like in kung fu practice you can swing between being too hard, to too soft, to aggressive to not aggressive enough, etc.; there is a swinging in culture that goes from one side to the other. You have to experiment and find the best way for you and your wife to walk the line between too much discipline, and not enough, and between too much touchy feely emo stuff, and not enough. You obviously care a lot and are trying your best so I know you will do a great job in the long run. I hope I don't sound too preachy for not having a child of my own but hopefully my perspective can help you find your own way. Good luck.

[Ian]

She starts yelling at our daughter and making cruel remarks in chinese ...'ni fan si li' (you trouble me to death...basically "you're a pain in the ass".... and 'cui si' (not sure what that one means) but the delivery tone is pure vile anger at our kid (which is another huge concern to me and over the last 3 weeks I've talked to her about it an average of 3x a week to which she responds with "I'm tired").

That's straight up not ok, bro. You should really make sure to intervene if your wife can't control that.

Unfortunately a lot of Chinese mothers I know are/were exactly like this. They'll say some really ugly things (a lot worse than what Dave described) and won't consider it a big deal.

[bailewen]

That's what I was getting at about the 60's revolution they never had. Psychology never went mainstream. "Spare the rod and spoil the child" is something I hear a lot over here. （不打不成材）

Dr. Spock? Never heard of him. I bet a lot of posters here will have to google him too ... but even people who haven't heard of him have been influenced.

Sublimation? Projection? All foreign terms on the mainland. We just take that stuff for granted.

[Ian]

yeah.. "when I die, you can fang bian pao"... "you're giving me cancer" etc etc

and what else is a ji mao sao for? this is asia, after all!

[Darthwing Teorist]

My daughter is half a year younger than yours, so what works for me may not work for you. She likes to dress herself but she does not manage very well. This wastes some time in the morning, but we let her put on one shoe while we put on the other (she complains a bit, but it is a compromise). So based on that experience, I guess that you can play with her dress-up games, where she puts on sometimes costumes, sometimes her clothes but in the evening when she knows that she will not leave the house so it will clearly be a game to her. Maybe pretend that you are going on an expedition/trek around the house so you get her to accept getting dressed. Then, in the morning hopefully she may want to dress herself, which is a lesser issue than yours.

About your wife, I don't want to generalize, but I think that mothers deal with many more issues than us, both mentally and practically, so they get tired from time to time. I know that my gf sometimes loses patience with our daughter, not very often and certainly not on the scale that you describe and that I am more patient with the kid when this happens. But it was always related to a tiredness issue that leads to interpret the actions of the baby in a negative manner (for example, "she's trying to manipulate us".) But in general, she thinks of and does many more things about the welfare of the child than I do. I know that this takes a toll on her from time to time.

Obviously, there's also that time of the month when women's emotions flare up. Did your incident happen during PMS or all the time?

I don't know how you guys manage your household, but if you can afford it, maybe hire some help to clean the house from time to time, to give her a break. Take her out. I also liked the idea of finding a confident for her. Just make sure the confident is either a straight woman or a gay man!

That's about all that I can think of right now. Good luck and be there both for your daughter and your wife.


PS:
For me what works most of the time right now, but it is time consuming, is to distract my daughter's attention when she's having a tantrum to something else. I usually take the patient approach unless she does something where I have to show her that she's wrong, like intentionally spilling a glass of milk, where I am more stern.

[Darthwing Teorist]

yeah.. "when I die, you can fang bian pao"... "you're giving me cancer" etc etc

and what else is a ji mao sao for? this is asia, after all!

It's not only Asians, Romanians have their own things like that too: "you're shortening my life by 10 years", "you're putting me in the grave", "It's me that gave you life, it's me that will take it away" etc. And this is not only from moms but grandmoms as well, when pushed to the limit.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

Think of it this way.

You know all those little nicks ,cuts and bumps that are your emotional scars from your relationship with your parents?
Yeah, well now it's your turn to deliver those to your kid.

[chud]

that's an excellent point. we're NOT on the same page. I'm always 'friendly/patient cop' and she's always 'lose it cop'

My wife and I seem to take turns with those roles depending on our moods, but I am usually like you: the patient cop (unless I've had a really bad day at work).
I will say this, I think that it's tough to reason with kids when they are younger than 7 years old. You have to use more basic authority-figure type methods; I don't like it, it's not my style, but it is what it is. Beyond that I hesitate to give any more advice since you have a girl, and I have zero experience with girls. I have two boys, and I grew up with a brother and no sisters. Raising girls is a strange mystery to me.

Unfortunately a lot of Chinese mothers I know are/were exactly like this. They'll say some really ugly things (a lot worse than what Dave described) and won't consider it a big deal.

If the ladies of RSF will forgive me, I think that there are many women (not all, but many) who tend to say ugly things without thinking it's a big deal. I know guys who have divorced their wives because of messed up things the wives have said to them (you're worthless, not a good husband, etc.), and then the wife is SHOCKED when the divorce proceedings start. It's one of the many strange things about women that I will never understand.

[Darthwing Teorist]

Here is a parenting example, from TNT:

[chud]

Here is a parenting example, from TNT:

[Doc Stier]

Four of my five children are already grown and gone, and I am recently a grandfather for the first time, which is very cool! But I still have a 6 year old in the house, so I remain a Daddy to a little one, too. She hopefully benefits from my OJT experience of raising the others before her. As with the other kids, I encourage her to cooperate by reminding her that she's a bigger girl now, not a baby anymore, and needs to be doing more things for herself, within reason of course.

To make this easier for her to do, I only buy shoes and clothing which are kid user friendly....i.e. shoes with easy to fasten buckles, velcro enclosures, or sandals, and clothing with zippers and buttons which are easy for small hands to negotiate. Any and all attempts to do things for herself are rewarded with praise and an enthusiastic "Gimme five", regardless of the outcome of these attempts.

I tell her she is pretty, smart, and strong daily, and that this is why I know she wants to look good, and why I know she can do this or that by herself. However, if there is genuine difficulty with anything, I am always readily willing to assist, without criticism or fault-finding. No problem!

The result has been the same as it was with her older siblings. She proudly demonstrates her ability to dress herself, although comfortable fitting socks are always a problem for most kids, put her shoes on by herself, prepare her own lunch for school, and so forth. Excellent! Nice job! Way to go, girl!

An old proverb states "The greatest gift to give a child is LOVE."

[Wanderingdragon]

I'm sorry, I gave advice for a five year old, as I've btdt raising two boys to manhood in the city and both being good people, I have to say again treat children like people, but at 2, let her have her way, as long as she is not hurting herself or others. It's good to show them you hurt sad face so they know when they've hurt your feelings, begins to teach them respect and compassion.

[Bär]

Chocolate cake for breakfast.

[thisisnotreal]

Comedian Louis CK on 'his little asshole'