Democracy's Defeat

[yieldingxxx]

Yeah, I was joking Yielding. I'll vote straight Democrat in November.

Sweet. Don't say those things because Chanchu is going to blow a gasket!!

[Dmitri]

"Obama lost sight of his moral compass"...

Oh man........

There are no decent people up there who actually give a shit. "Moral compass" my ass!
I can only repeat what I said before -- people should have voted for Ron Paul (on one side of the fence) or for Kucinich (on the other), as these are just about the only candidates who I think would actually care more about the country and the constitution than their positions of power... But it seems that the majority of the voters won't EVER vote anyone like that in; the driving factors will ALWAYS be what the media serves up, the candidates' charisma, and all kinds of other insignificant bullshit. And as a result, they will always do this:



and this:




So...

I say...

[qiphlow]

yup. same medicine, different packaging.

[yusuf]

two horses with one owner .. make that three if you count the tea party....

[yieldingxxx]

I can only repeat what I said before -- people should have voted for Ron Paul (on one side of the fence) or for Kucinich (on the other), as these are just about the only candidates who I think would actually care more about the country and the constitution than their positions of power...

With hindsight I agree with this statement.

The problem for me and we liberal/progressives is that we 'thought' Obama was a REAL progressive liberal with a mandate for progressive ideals, but truth be told he turned out to be Republican-Lite! Anybody who's not been twisted by FOX NEWS propaganda can see that Obama is very Moderate on every single issue, and in some cases even conservative. His continuous attempts at bi-partisanship only appeared to have weaken his political power and worry his base. Instead of standing up like FDR did to the powerful special interests, he played along and put through mediocre laws (health care, wall st reform, etc.) - Still, it's certainly better than nothing, and certainly a whole lot more than any republican in Congress would have done, but in the end it has been just 'baby steps' so far.

Regardless, we have a two party system in this country and since one party is much more destructive than the other, we've got to vote Democrat; it's not pretty, it's not sexy, you may not even like it, but it's the bottom line truth if you care about our country. Unless another candidate who is a REAL liberal with a chance to win comes along, people who think like me will vote for Obama 100%. There's still a part of me holding out hope that BO can find the FDR in him….. Time's running out, but we'll see.

Here’s what I was/am hoping for in Obama…..

From a FDR speech:

"We had to struggle with the old enemies of peace—business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering. They had begun to consider the Government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob." Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me—and I welcome their hatred.

[Dmitri]

Unless another candidate who is a REAL liberal with a chance to win comes along, people who think like me will vote for Obama 100%.

...and thus on and on it goes, around that same vicious circle, again and again. Despite obvious problems. Can you still not see the inherent problem that lies in HOW you vote/pick your candidate? You're still looking at what they say, not what they do...
Another charismatic dude will come along, with all the right words, sounding like that "REAL liberal" you're looking for, -- and a few years later you, in all likelihood, will be saying, again, "with hindsight I agree"...

Screw the hindsight. How about foresight? How about forgetting the PARTY and voting for the PERSON? Pick not a Democrat or a Republican or a Vegetarian or a Whatevarian, -- but an honest, decent PERSON with a lot of integrity, good understanding of and devotion to his damn job, -- as opposed to obsession with celebrity status, position of power, personal profits, etc.

That job, BTW, is defined very succinctly. Remember?

"I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

People completely ignore that little bit. I mean, it's, like, HIS ENTIRE FUCKING OATH.

preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States

Not "create jobs", not "start wars", not "end wars", etc., etc., etc. Look at what they are promising. NOBODY with the exception of Ron Paul and Kucinich (who made that "little" issue their central core theme during elections), nobody ever talked about it, during the '08 election. Nobody ever promises to uphold the constitution -- even though it is THE #1 responsibility of the president. Of course, everybody promises to do whatever "the people" want to hear promised, to get more votes, more media exposure, etc.

THERE is one of the clues you can follow in the next election.

preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.











Pisses me off...



All of this is 99.9% useless, I know.


Oh well.

[yieldingxxx]

It may be useless Dmitri, but fwiw I basically agree with you, but I'm a realist and since I know, just as you know, that people in this country are completely 'distracted' (to be kind), a guy like Kucinich or even Ron Paul (the two of them are not good looking enough) can not get elected. Until there is a major change in thinking, and perhaps some political education and a healthy does of critical thinking skills as well, which certainly isn't going to happen in the next 2 to 4 years......... Obama it is. That's the reality, and btw, that's why Obama will get re-elected.

Believe me, if Dennis Kucinch (or someone of his mindset) had enough juice to win, I'd be working for his campaign already. Truth be told, I think it's all over anyway. Corporations are totally in charge now, and we working folk have little to no representation any longer regardless of what state you're from. Until the real changes happen that I mentioned above, the best we can do in this inept society we all live in is fight for the little things - in other words, baby steps is the best we are going to get.

[Chris Fleming]

Hey man, you're dropping names all over the place. Ever think that maybe you have too much invested in this whole mess? It's just that I've been around people who like to talk about this political figurehead and that political figurehead...endlessly talking about senators and representatives from one end of the country to the other...it's like how some people talk about football teams. That should tell you something. Ever think about taking a vacation from being worried about various names who have basically no power over you and your life? Your "tribe" or "team" will either win or lose. Hopefully you won't feel that YOU have won or lost something, as that is what the system tries to get you to feel. Meanwhile those who really hold the power remain unchanged--those are the ones to worry about, rather than who said what in some political speech or advert.

I do agree with some of your points, but elections STILL matter whether they be on the local or federal level. For instance, if Al Gore was president would we be in Iraq today? I think not. What if there were ten more Dems in the Senate these last two years? -- Nancy Pelosi passed over 400 bills in the House, but they all got jammed in the Senate which only keeps our country from progressing forward. Within some of those bills that the prolific Speaker Pelosi passed, were infrastructure projects and tax cuts for small business to name a couple, but conservatives don't like those things so we stay stagnant, i.e., held hostage by a handful of Corporate owned bought-and-paid-for republican Senators. (BTW, those 40 republican Senators represent less than 20% of the US people - so we have a very small minority over-ruling a very large majority - It's tragic really).

One of the real issues is the recent Supreme Court Decision which now allows UNLIMITED and UNDISCLOSED financing of individual campaigns. The 5 to 4 decision now makes it possible for a foreign corporation/person (now are the same) to buy whichever Senate/House/Governor candidate they choose. That, and Corporate lobbying should be illegal too. I know there's a Democrat from Virginia (Tom Perriello) who is looking into impeaching SCJ Roberts for false testimony under oath - I can only dream that one comes true!


It's not about my team vs your team, it's about OUR team - We The People - who deserve to be represented in our best interest, not interests of Multi-National Corporations who are now on a mission to destroy America just so they can improve their bottom line.

That was a good post. However, you said it yourself--corporations can buy any politician they want. I can't tell from here but hopefully you don't believe that only Republican politicians get bought. They are ALL bought by big business. They are ALL on the Big Business and War Party. Voting between the two different sides is like voting on if you want to be punched in the face with a right hook or a left hook. Some choice. They are ALL getting money from multinationals and will represent their interests, ours. All of the debate on which name said what is just a distraction from this.

[yieldingxxx]

That was a good post. However, you said it yourself--corporations can buy any politician they want. I can't tell from here but hopefully you don't believe that only Republican politicians get bought. They are ALL bought by big business. They are ALL on the Big Business and War Party. Voting between the two different sides is like voting on if you want to be punched in the face with a right hook or a left hook. Some choice. They are ALL getting money from multinationals and will represent their interests, ours. All of the debate on which name said what is just a distraction from this.

I agree with your sentiments, and yes, there are a slew of corrupt Democrats as well. In fact, I deplore some of them, especially the Senators who seem to get less done now than ever before. So what's the answer? Some say we need another party and look what we've gotten in recent times - THE TEA PARTY - not exactly my idea of hope and change, so I'm honestly wondering if it's just too damn late now.......

I think we'd both agree that as long as the rules of the game remain the same, a new party, a new candidate, isn't going to change the systemic things that you often refer to. Is it just too late?

[affa]

the majority of the voters... will ALWAYS beat... what the media serves up, the candidates' charisma, and all kinds of other insignificant bullshit.

Is it just too late?

it's never too late to dance!

[Steve James]

Ya'll could never have voted for any president in your or my lifetime, if the Constitution means anything bout wars or "general welfare." You can't name one in the 20th c, and forget about anyone before that, including Lincoln. The tea party is not interested in ron paul, their "leaders" are palin, gingrich, mcdonnell, &co. The Constitution doesn't guarantee women the right to choose, for ex; so,who's for it? I'm not aware of paul's position on that, but ya gotta wonder.

As I've said before, anyone who suggests that some AMERICANS don't have the same rights. --regardless of race, creed or color. Everything else is jus fraud, bombast and political posturing, and guarantees that I will not vote for the person who says it.

Iirc, it was (only) Obama who campaigned by saying there weren't red and blue states, only red white and blue ones, and that "we" the American people were in it together. That's what sold me. Afa the bailout, it was the Republicans Bush who caused the defcit in the first place --so put them back. Afa jobs, ha, how come when 'minority' unemployment is 20%, they are told they're lazy or don't pull themselves up by their booot straps? Now, it's the government's and they need to do something? Same with health care and medicare. The signs said 'Don't take away my Medicare (I.e. gov't underwritten health care). With tax cuts, Bush instituted them (because we had a urplus -even with all the gov't stuuf, Fed, etc. He planne for it to end after his term? So, now the sitting Prez is vilified for raising taxes (back to where they were when there was a deficit. Well, it' s not hard to figure the politics.

[Chris Fleming]

That was a good post. However, you said it yourself--corporations can buy any politician they want. I can't tell from here but hopefully you don't believe that only Republican politicians get bought. They are ALL bought by big business. They are ALL on the Big Business and War Party. Voting between the two different sides is like voting on if you want to be punched in the face with a right hook or a left hook. Some choice. They are ALL getting money from multinationals and will represent their interests, ours. All of the debate on which name said what is just a distraction from this.

I agree with your sentiments, and yes, there are a slew of corrupt Democrats as well. In fact, I deplore some of them, especially the Senators who seem to get less done now than ever before. So what's the answer? Some say we need another party and look what we've gotten in recent times - THE TEA PARTY - not exactly my idea of hope and change, so I'm honestly wondering if it's just too damn late now.......

I think we'd both agree that as long as the rules of the game remain the same, a new party, a new candidate, isn't going to change the systemic things that you often refer to. Is it just too late?

It may very well be too late. On the other side of things, the fact that we and probably tens of thousands (if not more like hundreds of thousands) of people across the country are having conversations like this one does gives me hope.

I think everyone needs to have their "betrayal moment", the thing that happens which shows a person it's all an insiders game. For me it really hit home when the Democrats won the majority in the house to counter Bush's insanity and said that if elected, they would end the war funding. Well, the got elected but they kept everything going as usual. Perhaps many people are going to have their "betrayal moment" with Obama in seeing that he was supposed to be the Good Guy to counter the Bad Guy (Bush) but sure enough, does exactly the same thing Bush did, and even to a larger scale. I wanted to like the guy, I really did. But the older I get the more I see that these people are nothing but teleprompter readers, smooth talkers, big promise-ers (well, that was easy enough to see from Clinton), and, well, corrupt lying greedy bastards.

As the saying goes, "how do you know a politician is lying? His lips are moving."

And "never trust a man who spends tens of millions of dollars for a job that only pays $250K a year".

Once we see that it is the system that is fundamentally wrong and be able to clearly point out the real bad guys maybe we can start to go in the right direction.

[Buddy]

Read "Conspiracy of the Rich" by Robert Kiyosaki.
As long as we have a two party system (as opposed to multi-party) and folks like yielding (whomever he is) advocate BIG government,the further down the road to that corporate/socialist hell to which we are heading. Progressive? Pah!

[bailewen]

First time in the history of RSF I am going to agree with Chris Fleming. I may even take him off ignore. Saw his last post because I wasn't signed in.

yeah. "betrayal moment"

Wasn't exactly a "moment" for me but...come to think of it, I think maybe it was. I was listening to a podcast "Common Sense with Dan Carlin". I got hooked on his "Hardcore History Hour" and only recently discovered he had a political podcast. He's the only person I've ever heard in my entire life to have made an argument for any right wing views that made any sense to me. He's not right wing either, more libertarian I guess. Mainly just smart. Got that whole historical perspective going on.

Anyways, the topic was about "truth in advertising": How is a democracy supposed to work if there is no correlation between what candidates campaign on and what they do in office. Then he started listing all the promises Obama made and what he's actually done.....*shudder*

There IS a difference and I still think Obama is like the second coming when compared with that Anti-Christ idiot son Bush but. . . . .

- Afghanistan has only escalated.
- Nothing happened on healthcare. Universal healthcare by making it mandatory to purchase? Really?
- No being denied for pre-existing conditions but....no price controls either . . . so it's like car insurance now.
- Financial reform - zippo again. A bunch of big industry bankers sit on a new board now to regulate themselves.
- 4th amendment - gone <-- why aren't the teabaggers in a fury about that one! It's completely gone.
http://reason.com/blog/2010/02/23/judge ... the-fourth <---plenty more stories like this one around if you look for them
- habeas corpus - still gone. Obama has done nothing to repeal the "Patriot" act.
- Torture: Shit man. He didn't even shut down that bullshit.
- Claimed Presidential authority to assassinate even US citizens. Seriously. How are people not complete shitting their pants over this one: http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn ... ssinations

So what now separates us from any 3rd world banana dictatorship? Average standard of living I guess. Politically, our system has been gutted. The President can "dissapear" people just like any banana republic dictator.

[Buddy]

So you were duped by an ideologue, Omar. But his ideas couldn't compete with the a priori all-too-entrenched sub-government. Obama is stupid enough (along with his "socialist" {read:self interested unions} cronies) that he thought he was smart enough to make his silly politics a reality. Once he destroys our standard of living (brought about via a free market economy that suited an elites purposes at the time...but no longer), then where will we be? He sees a logical conclusion as a (quiet?) revolution by the proletariat. But what it will really be is chaos and anarchy. Then watch the crunch come down.