zenshiite wrote:^So your argument is that an apartheid state ruled by democracy for one ethnic group, and disenfranchisement for another is legit and good? What the fuck is that? How is that any different from the surrounding states?
Furthermore, most of the world accepts that an Islamic state is a bad thing. The question, really, is why should there be the acceptance and expectation of a Jewish state at all? Particularly when the religious aspect of identifying as "Jewish" is secondary in the conception of Israel to the ethnic/racial conception of "Jewishness." In which case, you have a state insisting upon an ethnic/racial character to the entire organization of the nation-state and any ethnic/racial grouping outside of this one particular is secondary to that which is the organizing principle of the state in question. As we see from the current structure of Israel, it is not a theocratic state, but a democratic state for those Jews living there and far less democratic for the Arabs residing within the borders of the state. That is abhorrent to me.
The irony of the Zionist project, to me, is the boom in anti-Jewish sentiment that it has caused. When you come into a place and start gobbling up land and resources by hook or by crook you have absolutely got to expect the people who were there before you to hate you.
I think he was addressing me Steve. And no, that's not what I think Zenshiite. I truly believe those people who wish to have a palestinian state should have it. I think Israel will be key to letting that happen and I agree that Jerusalem, being the crossroads of the old world should not belong to any state and should run it's own affairs.
I also agree that the situation in Israel is contentious and troubled. I also think that Israels Jewishness is no different from the surrounding nations absolute and deep identity as Islamic. Even more so, they are still less than the officially titled "Islamic Republics" of Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan, and Mauritania. Which are viewed as some kind of substitute for "caliphate". So, calling something a Jewish state is no different from that, or the inference given by Americans who say "one nation under god" and it's likely that most Americans believe that "God" to be Jesus or the Trinity including Jesus.
So, the religious question and the allowability of a nation to directly associate itself to the religious practices of the majority, is not uncommon and it is not fair in the very least to criticize Israel for it's Jewish way of running a nation. As for the aphartheid that exists, who created that? I'm not asking who controls the situation, obviously it is Israel and her allies that control it, I'm asking what is the root cause for the form of apartheid that does exist? I think it is fear and hostility due to being attacked virtually immediately upon forming the state of Israel. That was only the beginning, and that early on. As you likely well know, it has been a constant and consistant stream of attacks on Israel day by day since then. the situation of Israel lashing back has gotten worse in the most recent times with them inflicting great damage against the aggresors which in turn, has created tensions on almost every single issue.
So, you tell me, what is so bad about have the two state solution implemented, with palestinians being given an agreed upon borderlands and the Islamic world can accept and acknowledge the existance of Israle, the Jewish state, among their Islamic ones. then, everyone can get along, live their lives and put their guns down and dispel their hate.
If you narrow it down to it's core issues, it's not that hard to see what should be done and we all get stymied when some idiot jacks it up and we have to wait for th tension to simmer down. Well it's not simmering down is it. So, what is it that should be done do you think?
Coconuts. Bananas. Mangos. Rice. Beans. Water. It's good.