Japan Nuclear Meltdown Thread

[Darthwing Teorist]

Michael, you're a walking, breathing RSS feed.

[Michael]

Just doing my duty to my fellow OTT posters and lurkers...and I-Mon.

Also, I've been reading and listening to a lot of news on the Fukushima catastrophe since it happened because it's such an important story with huge implications for Japan, USA, Canada, and others. The two most important areas after money that are needed for social function are energy and food, and this affects them both for many countries outside of Japan, to what extent remains to be seen. Existing examples are that Germany has decided to shut down 25% of its nuclear power plants as a "precaution", which will cause significant increases in energy costs, and this trend could spread. How badly the nuclear irradiated water being dumped into the Pacific will affect the overall food catch remains to be seen, but it will almost certainly be devastating for Japan, raising prices there, and could do the same for perhaps all other countries who get much of their food from the Pacific. We'll have to wait to find out, but several countries have already banned Japanese food imports and I think it's likely the radiation will not stop at the source for quite a long time, so it will spread farther and farther into the ocean.

[Interloper]

Another quake with magnitude 7.4 just hit northern Japan (Tohoku) a short while ago. The media are calling it "aftershock," but a quake is a quake. Reports are that the ground shook in Tokyo for 2 minutes. It was a deep quake (25 metres under) so did not cause as much damage as shallower quakes that disrupt the surface with all the roads and structures resting on it. NHK is alerting people along the north coast of Honshu to move to high ground in anticipation of a tsunami expected soon.

How the power plants will be affected, we can only wait and see.

[edededed]

Yup, it felt pretty big - I didn't feel it for 2 minutes, though, maybe 30 seconds or more. I do hope that it does not lead to tsunami (again), though...

[Interloper]

ed,
Where are you located? My fiance and his mother live in Hachioji City and I haven't spoken with them yet today -- I figure they are probably wide awake right now, though, so I'm going to try calling.

Odd how a reporter in Tokyo said it shook for two minutes, while the article on Yahoo says one minute, and you say 30 seconds. Maybe individual perceptions? Or different vibe transmissions depending on whether you're close to the ground or in a tall building?

[edededed]

Well, I am just speaking from feeling - I am sure a sensitive scientific instrument would sense vibrations longer than I did (I live on the 2nd floor.)

I'm in Tokyo.

[Darthwing Teorist]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/japan ... -ancestors

Good luck to the Japanese. It is a very tough time, but I am sure that they will manage to get out of the crisis.

[Interloper]

Teo,
I saw that item about the forgotten tsunami warning from the ancestors. Interesting, neh?

ed,
Maybe just a clock with a sweep-second hand (analogue) or digital timer would be enough to accurately assess how long the quake shook for.

[edededed]

"Neh?" I think in English we normally just say "eh," but...

(Incidentally, I think that the main reason why Japanese folks' English ability is typically so abysmal is because they "mix" up their languages too much (i.e. use a huge number of English loanwords in Japanese sentences). Thus, the main fruit of their extensive English programs since middle school is the total degradation of their own language )

[Interloper]

Dunno where "neh" came from but I've been saying it for years. I think I picked it up from an old aikido listserv group!

Yeah, one day my bf and I were talking about the English words that got absorbed into Japanese -- bisuteki (beefsteak), besubaru (baseball), otomeru (oatmeal) and that kinda thing, and then it occurred to me that Japan has been doing that for centuries whenever a new concept or substance (butter, for instance) was introduced into Japanese culture. The first recorded one, was "arrigato" -- which comes from the the Portuguese word (don't know if I'm spelling it correctly, and too lazy to fact-check!) "obrigato" ...obliged -- as in "thanks, I'm much obliged to you." I guess Japanese didn't have a specific word for "thank you," or else the Portuguese protocol replaced an older Japanese word or expression.

[edededed]

"Neh" comes from ね, and is oft-used by "American otaku" in butchered English like:

"Wow, Jill-chan is so kawaii, neh?"

I'm a bit disappointed to see those horrible habits of speech in aikido groups, too...

"Bisuteki" should be "Bifuteki;" people don't really say "besuboru" here (although I have seen that referenced in English media a few times), they 100% say "yakyu" instead.

English is basically the "new Chinese," and every year they take new loanwords from English, to the point where noone really knows what they are talking about, but they get used to memorizing arbitrary words and acronyms (for which they do not know what they stand for). In the end, there are just a whole bunch of synonyms, which is expected, as the usage of loanwords comes from learning English in school, where teachers and students assume that English vocabulary are exact meaning replicates of native Japanese words (except for foods like butter). Thus, although they have doubled the number of words to choose from in Japanese, they have not gained anything out of it (new ideas), while obfuscating understanding of the language.

If you look at business material, you will see that Japanese language is basically 65% Chinese characters, 30% English loanwords in katakana, and 5% Japanese particles (ga, no, etc.). Doing the reverse to demonstrate in English, we would say things like:

Aikido is sugoi gendai budo that watashi suki.

Or, more accurately:

Aikido is susumajii ima's yo's mononofu's waza that ware suku.

(In other words, hardly any English remains at all.)

Arigato does not come from obrigato - that is a myth. Arigato is the shortened form (because polite Japanese is so darn long) of "doumo arigatou gozaimasu," which means "how so difficult to have it is."

Dou = how
Mo = also
Arigatougozaimasu = polite way of saying Arigatai
Arigatai = Ari + gatai
Ari = have, exist
-Gatai = difficult

So, arigatou means "hard to have" or "hard to exist," i.e. the idea is that "I am sorry, how can this be, I cannot have this, I cannot accept this" - which is not the same as "thank" per say, but is their own native idea that is close to it.

They HAVE adopted the Chinese "ganxie" as "kansha," which is also a way to "thank" someone; also related, however, is that originally, the Chinese "xie" seemed to be more of an apology than a thank you.

(And then, some people flippantly say "sankusu" (thanks) nowadays here, too - that is from Engrish, of course, minus the "th" sound.)

[Interloper]

Good myth-busting info, ed. I know we share the same passion for "trivia" on a variety of subjects. Sorry to have held on to the "neh" for so many years. The listserv is long gone, at least.
I know that "arigato" is part of the longer phrase, but as to its origins, I actually read the Portuguese attribution long ago in a book that purported to trace the influence of Europeans on the Japanese language. Just goes to show how little proof is required of information in the popular press.

As for the English-Japanese words, I am just spelling them based on how my Japanese bf pronouces them (and I'm sure I probably misheard a few). Living with him, I had to deal with "Japanenglish" every day.

[edededed]

A lot of people seem to believe the myth here, too. I would suspect that there may be influence in terms of copious use of the word, though (to match the copious usage of "thank you" in English), even if they used a native word for it.

(In the old days, loanwords were few, limited to things like "tempura" and such - an actual new idea, so they were on the right track at first, I guess. Tempura was loaned early on, and so is not written with katakana like other loanwords (it even has kanji, too, now).)

Hmm - your pronunciation hasn't had much of an effect on your boyfriend's pronunciation?

Incidentally, the only loanword from Japanese to English that isn't JMA- or food-related that I can think of is... tsunami.

[Interloper]

Don't forget "wabi-sabi" and "zen," both of which have found their way into American usage. Just pick up an American home-decor, gardening or style magazine and those words will tumble out in any article that involves achieving a calming and peaceful, meditative atmosphere for one's home and yard. "Zen" is also overused for anything and everything that involves a certain frame of mind or approach to a sport, art (non-martial) or discipline.

My boyfriend's pronunciation has remained unchanged despite his having lived in the U.S. for longer than he lived in Japan. Well, he's in Japan now, so his pronunciation is likely being re-established. He grew up in Hachioji City, which is contiguous to west Tokyo, so whatever their accent is, that's what he has

[Steve James]

Re: Japanese loanwords in English. It does seem to be true that most of them are related to food or martial arts. But, any Japanese word or concept can enter English-usage just as it is. Manga, hentai, shoji, bonsai, for example, all mean the same thing in English as they do in Japanese. We (speaking generally and off the top of my head) usually won't substitute an English alternative or, as in German or French, create an entirely new term in the language. There might be stores that sell "mini-trees" and "dirty-cartoons" (or "rawfish" ), but ... Otoh, maybe this is generally true for Western languages in general when it comes to borrowing words from Asian languages.

Anyway, still praying for Japan.