Ms.

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Re: Ms.

Postby GrahamB on Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:40 am

Yep , "mum" is used in the UK for what, I believe, you call a "mom" I.e. it's your mother. In the UK we only say "ma'am" to refer to female teachers in very posh schools.

Of course we have a zillion regional dialect. Go north and "my mum" becomes "me mar" ;D
Last edited by GrahamB on Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:43 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Ms.

Postby gzregorz on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:26 pm

so Chris,

did you resist the urge to just tell her to shut up and learn German?
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Re: Ms.

Postby Ralteria on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:59 pm

GrahamB wrote:Yep , "mum" is used in the UK for what, I believe, you call a "mom" I.e. it's your mother. In the UK we only say "ma'am" to refer to female teachers in very posh schools.

Of course we have a zillion regional dialect. Go north and "my mum" becomes "me mar" ;D


I'm curious now where ma'am came from as it seems like a corruption of "mum". Or maybe "ma dame"...that's probably closer.

We've got "Mom"s over here...and "Ma"'s

My kids call my wife "mother" when they want to grate on her nerves, hahaha.
Last edited by Ralteria on Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ms.

Postby Steve James on Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:28 pm

Or maybe "ma dame"...that's probably closer.


Exactly, not close. (Almost) literally ma domina. ...Um, not to be confused literally with dominatrix. Btw, edit: ma donna is the same, but not always mad Donna.
Last edited by Steve James on Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ms.

Postby cdobe on Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:48 pm

Thank you very much, Mizzz Interloper and Gentlemen. To me Miz sounds very strange. In other languages, including German, they just got rid of the word for unmarried woman, which is usually the diminutive form of the word used for married women. In German every woman is now addressed as Frau and not as Fräulein.
Of course I looked up the meaning of it myself, but I was/am very interested whether it is really used. Seems to me that in liberal California it is more common, than elsewhere in the US?

gzregorz wrote:so Chris,

did you resist the urge to just tell her to shut up and learn German?

She already knows German, so I could just tell her to shut up ;)
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Re: Ms.

Postby gzregorz on Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:24 pm

I used to work with an angry sikh who would yell at his boss in English and in Punjabi. It seemed as if there were not enough bad words in English for him to express what he wanted to say. She told him that they were going to fire him, but they weren't, he got so pissed off that he quit. This was a year ago and he's still out of work. So needless to say now you have two weapons.
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Re: Ms.

Postby Taichiturtle on Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:17 pm

I only ever use Ms when writing a letter to a woman I do not know personally. As such I have used it several times. But only then. It is always an option on official forms though - so women are entitled to refer to themselves this way if they wish.

Ma'am is, I assume, an abbreviation of madam, which we use in England - and presumably an anglicised version of Madame as discussed earlier.
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Re: Ms.

Postby Interloper on Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:47 pm

Southern (US) children learn to use "Miz" or "Ma'am? (or "M'", as in "Yes'm" -- "Yes, Ma'am" slurred together). Friends of mine from New Orleans had their kids call women Miz plus first name (as in Miz Suzie, Miz Abigail).

Ma'am is a contraction of madam/madame, which is from the French "Ma dame" -- "my lady." The old anglicized word "Dame" (a term for a woman or matriarch) comes from it, as does "dam," the term for a female parent/progenitrix, especially for an animal such as a horse or dog. It's the female equivalent of "sire," which became "Sir."

Ma'am is commonly used here in the Northeast for women who look old enough to be married. :D
Madam and madame are seldom used, though, and in fact "madam" is the term used for a woman who runs a brothel.
Last edited by Interloper on Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ms.

Postby Steve James on Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:13 pm

Well, I don't think that the word "Miz" exists. It's just an attempt to illustrate a pronunciation. Ms. is an official form of address. One could argue that "Miz" could be Miss or Mrs, since "Missus" could be Mrs. (why isn't that pronounced "misters"?) or "Misses." There's no way to tell from the pronunciation, only from the context. When I was a child, all women of age were called "Miss" with their first name, and probably "Mrs" when using the last. So, it was always "Miss Ruth", but "Mrs. Smith."
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Re: Ms.

Postby Interloper on Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:43 pm

"Miz" is verbal pronunciation, slightly drawled, not written, used to address women regardless of marital status. I neglected to specify that. But "Pogo" cartoonist Walter Kelly spelled it out that way in his comic strip, though he meant "Miss"... He spelled out "Missus" for married females. :)
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Re: Ms.

Postby kenneth fish on Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:17 pm

In public situations (for example, when I am calling a patient to a treatment room) it is considered polite and professional to use Ms. (pronounced "Miz"), as it carries no indication of marital status. As has been pointed out, it was also how "Miss" was pronounced in the Southeast (Virginia, the Carolinas etc) - and "Miss" was used in a similar way to "Ms" in that regard - in other words it could be used to refer to address women in general, regardless of marital status or age (think of "Driving Miss Daisy").
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Re: Ms.

Postby river rider on Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:40 pm

Working in public health, I found the use of Ms to be a form of politeness that was usually appreciated. Initially I was flabbergasted by negative reactions to mrs or miss in the context of my work... it was better just to use an unadorned full name. Ms sent a signal that I was not making any assumptions, and was a better way to start off.
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Re: Ms.

Postby pennsooner on Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:58 pm

Depends on context and educational level. When in a professional setting it is considered inappropriate to use marital status as a way to designate a woman.
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