It can't be me

[vadaga]

My life in China had a higher density of these sort of 'special' moments than most other places I have lived at. One of my flats in Shanghai in particular I swear had some sort of weird cosmic eddy which caused them to occur with regularity...although it could have just been slipshod outfitting of the place on the part of the landlord.. after a while though I kind of learned to just go with the flow... Daoism in action as it were...

[Michael]

Glad that y'all enjoyed the story. That's cool.

[Michael]

It sounds to me like he was trying to build relations with you and the translators to continue doing more business with you and them in the future. If he took the money then he would have felt compelled to leave. Instead I think he was trying to show or least pretend that the money wasn't important (kind of like when everyone wants to pay for the meal to save face) and I think the more you tried to give it to him be extended the meeting 10 more minutes.

I think you're right. He was trying to establish contact so that we could refer more durian-loving internet users to his multi-level ISP in the future. Fascinating.

[cerebus]

LOL! Oh my God man! That's freakin' hilarious! In a fucked-up "glad it wasn't me" kinda way...

[gzregorz]

It sounds to me like he was trying to build relations with you and the translators to continue doing more business with you and them in the future. If he took the money then he would have felt compelled to leave. Instead I think he was trying to show or least pretend that the money wasn't important (kind of like when everyone wants to pay for the meal to save face) and I think the more you tried to give it to him be extended the meeting 10 more minutes.

I think you're right. He was trying to establish contact so that we could refer more durian-loving internet users to his multi-level ISP in the future. Fascinating.

Welcome to Chinese Amway.

[gzregorz]

It's not you Michael.

What a crazy story; I wonder what clicked and finally made him decide to accept payment.
It seems that there were some strange undercurrents going on there ("paralyzed by the Chinese-ness of it all" says a lot).

About 5 years ago I really wanted to go to China, but honestly I have no desire any more.
Not because of your thread Michael, just the culmination of all the China threads I have read over the years.

One thing all foreigners will tell you who have lived in China is there is never a dull moment.

[Bao]

Instead I think he was trying to show or least pretend that the money wasn't important (kind of like when everyone wants to pay for the meal to save face) and I think the more you tried to give it to him be extended the meeting 10 more minutes.

I think you're right. He was trying to establish contact so that we could refer more durian-loving internet users to his multi-level ISP in the future. Fascinating.

I don't know... You didn't quite say how you found the technician/allround guy. If you found him through a friend or if your traslator got him through a friend, he would be reluctant to accept money. You don't make money transactions in China if there is friendship or personal contacts involved.

[Franklin]

haha

i have had so many similar things happen to me here in taiwan...

actually i had a very similar experience getting a cell phone here in taiwan (only a couple months ago)
at the store where they sell the phones and the contracts- a branch store of the company that supplies the sernvice
i will not name it- but there are only about 4 big providers here in taiwan

there is a store on every block here
literally

the first one we went in- said they can not sell a phone and hook up service with a contract
they are just a small branch of the company
we need to go to the store on the next block

the other store- exactly the same size... inside is exactly the same (almost)
but they are the main branch

ok so we go in
i already have all the details of the plan and the phone i want
i know how much i have to pay up front... (a large chunk)

should be easy right

haha

took close to an hour

I said- i want this phone and this contract...
lady has to go through the whole things with me again about all the plans and all the phones...
... me-.......... i know all this...
i would like ... and i repeat the plan details and the phone to her
it should be so much that i have to pay right?
here i have the money... can i get the phone and contract?
pointing at the phone and and at the contract on the brochure

you would have thought the money was poisoned... she would not touch it
so i just put it down on the table...

and had to go through about an hour of agonizing... agonizing pointless.... nothing

"this is the contract...
this is the paper the contract is written on....
let me read it to you....

this is the box that the sim card comes in.....
here this is the other side of the box....
i am going to put the sim card int he phone now....
etc etc..."""

the whole time the money is sitting on the counter..

i am thinking... if it blows away... what will happen...
will the sales lady then want to touch it...
people are coming in to pay their bills and check out the phones
i am thinking... what if one of them tries to take it...
will the lady then make a move to go for the money?
i mean she has to realize that it is highly unlikely that i have another large chunk of money in my pocket
.....

had to find a way to occupy my mind...
it was driving me crazy
its a cell phone man...
not a trip to another universe....
it should not take over an hour.... to get one....
and i know what a sim card is...
and the box that it comes in is not that important....




i feel your pain....

[Dmitri]

I've got a question about this:

I don't speak much Mandarin.

How come? You've been there for many years, and still don't speak (or understand) the language to a point where you don't need an interpreter? Or even two?

Just curious.

[Interloper]

I've got a question about this:

I don't speak much Mandarin.

How come? You've been there for many years, and still don't speak (or understand) the language to a point where you don't need an interpreter? Or even two?

Just curious.

Same thing occurred to me. Not that speaking the language makes it any easier to deal with crazy cultural dysfunction, but still...

[Michael]

had to find a way to occupy my mind...
it was driving me crazy
its a cell phone man...
not a trip to another universe....
it should not take over an hour.... to get one....
and i know what a sim card is...
and the box that it comes in is not that important....

i feel your pain....

ROFLMAO!!

[Darthwing Teorist]

Maybe he spends too much time on RSF instead of mingling with the natives.

[Bao]

I've got a question about this:

I don't speak much Mandarin.

How come? You've been there for many years, and still don't speak (or understand) the language to a point where you don't need an interpreter? Or even two?

Just curious.

Same thing occurred to me. Not that speaking the language makes it any easier to deal with crazy cultural dysfunction, but still...

True, Interloper.

Chinese is not easy to learn. It took me many years to learn how to communicate somewhat fluently. Not to speak about writing. I gave that up as soon as I left the studies. Mandarin is a bitch and all those characters can drive anyone nuts.

[Michael]

I've got a question about this:

I don't speak much Mandarin.

How come? You've been there for many years, and still don't speak (or understand) the language to a point where you don't need an interpreter? Or even two?

Just curious.

Most foreigners I know who come from English-speaking countries to China in order to be English teachers learn little Chinese, even after being here ten years or more. It seems Africans, Spanish speakers, and Middle Easterners who are business people, not teachers, learn quite quickly. Some foreigners I know who are English teachers say the reason they don't learn is that they don't want to know what the locals are saying.

I honestly don't know if I would be better off being able or unable to communicate. As it stands, I pretty much just have to tolerate whatever weirdness is going on and try to let it go. If I could argue with apartment managers who, for example, will not sell me three parking passes for my three bicycles, even after I bring all three bikes into his office and have him speak for an hour with a bilingual friend, if I could argue with such a person myself, surely I would lose my mind.

When I have problems communicating I get a little steamed, realize it's pointless, and make the best of things, even when people hit me with their cars, buses, and taxis while I'm on my bike. I just get up, dust myself off, realize it's pointless to get angry with someone I can't tell why I'm angry, and ride away.

Putting this into context, Chinese people who share a common language like Mandarin or Cantonese have at least as much trouble communicating with each other as they do with me. Very often they are hurling words at each other in a violent discharge of one-way-only effusions, completely immune to any response from the recipient of their verbal abuse, euphemistically referred to as speech. I often hear two men somewhere behind me, out of sight, in what sounds like a prelude to a death match, but when I turn to see the bloodsport begin they are just having a normal chat, probably exchanging pleasantries, neither one allowing a damn word the other has spoken to penetrate his mind, both intensifying their tonal qualities and raising their volume level in an attempt to force the other to listen.

I was learning some Cantonese from Pimsleur MP3's when I first got here, but I made the mistake of asking local people for feedback on how I was doing. Although my pronunciation was good enough for waitresses, clerks, and taxi drivers to understand me, I was hoping some of my local Chinese English students would help me polish my tones and maybe go from something like 70% accurate pronunciation to 90% or better.

There are some fundamental differences between the way I (and a lot of Westerners) interact with people and how Chinese do it. I have been unable to adjust to many of these differences, one of these being that I expect feedback from people I'm trying to communicate with. That is not done here, especially if you explicitly ask for it, which is equivalent to giving oneself an intravenous drip of mental anguish and frustration.

Finally, it's possible to get along in China without knowing any Chinese. The locals, especially one's English students, are extremely generous in their attitude toward helping foreigners, although helpers other than my English students generally treat me like a brain damaged three year old. They absolutely can not believe that I can get around on buses without knowing Chinese.

"But the buses have numbers," I say.
"But you don't know Chinese!" they reply.
"I can remember Chinese characters without understanding them," I say.
"But you're not Chinese!" they reply. This answers all.

Their hearts are sort of in the right place, but they're very patronizing and invasive when you let them think you need their help.

[Dmitri]

Thanks again. A bit unexpected/weird reasoning, but totally understandable...