It can't be me

[Michael]

If I remember correctly, you were doing business in China with your cousin and weren't an English teacher. What I've seen is that very few English teachers learn more than basic Chinese, but most people doing other kinds of business get conversational in six months or less. Business people are usually skilled at getting to the essence of communication, while teachers tend to pick at the mistakes. LOL

[Michael]

To conclude, I asked my landlord how much my internet costs, so naturally, instead of answering the question, he jumped to a conclusion and cancelled the existing ADSL, then requested installation of fiber optic. He came to supervise the initial, incomplete installation and then he went AWOL for a week while I called him every other day to reaffirm that I had no internet access. After the fourth call, he understood, returned, realized a fiber cable separating my apartment in half like an "I Love Lucy" prop was not optimum.

His wife persuaded China Telecom to restore the ADSL after they'd sworn, without explanation, it could never be used again. After 10 days offline, I have working internet again, but sort of think that maybe I would be better off without it, but don't have the heart to tell my nice landlord that I've decided to go without after all his hard work. BTW, my ADSL is now 50% faster than before and I still don't know how much I'm paying for it.

However, the whole thing raised various topics and questions about zoning, taxes, licenses, etc., and I finally understand that the legal system, zoning system, taxing, etc. is so complicated in China that it's basically impossible to ever know for certain about anything here. I've always sensed that massive insecurity, but didn't know it was codified. It's weird, too, 'cause the places often seems like a free-for-all, but actually it's all very rigid on paper, and yet very flexible in person if you get along with the enforcers. And if they don't like you, no matter how many licenses you have, they will shut you down.

[Doc Stier]

And if they don't like you, no matter how many licenses you have, they will shut you down.

And deservedly so, as well they should!

Dammit, Michael, what were you thinking anyway?

[bailewen]

If I remember correctly, you were doing business in China with your cousin and weren't an English teacher. What I've seen is that very few English teachers learn more than basic Chinese, but most people doing other kinds of business get conversational in six months or less. Business people are usually skilled at getting to the essence of communication, while teachers tend to pick at the mistakes. LOL

lol's aside, it's got nothing to do with any sort of communication skills. It's pretty damn simple: level of immersion.

As Steve said on the previous page, people learn languages based primarily on necessity. As an ESL teacher, there is no need. As a businessman, there is. As an English teacher, the vast majority of the people you know are "friends" with you primarily to improve their English. You have your students, many of which will honestly think of you as a friend, but who's entire reason for knowing you initially was to learn, improve or just practice their English. Your whole raison d'être in China is to provide an English resource.

As a businessman, that is not the case. You are there to do business. You are not interacting with a bunch of English students or "western culture groupies". You will be dealing with people who not only do not speak any significant amount of English, they haven't got the time or energy to learn any English beyond a couple of hip phrases they can use at parties to sound cool or educated much like American's in the 50's of a certain social stratum used to sprinkle their speech with French.

English teachers fail to learn Chines simply because they never bother to put in the time. They speak English with their students all day at work and the school provides translators or "assistants" to deal with your landlord or getting cable internet installed so there's never any real pressure to learn. I don't believe it's got anything do to with personalities or language talent whatsoever. ESL teachers just tend not to put in the time and they have no social pressure to learn.

[I-mon]

Just practice kung fu with people who don't speak English, it's impossible to not learn Chinese.

[Michael]

And if they don't like you, no matter how many licenses you have, they will shut you down.

And deservedly so, as well they should!

Dammit, Michael, what were you thinking anyway?

The hilarious thing is that my internet was working great and the only reason I inquired about it was to confirm that somehow my nice landlord hadn't got stuck with the bill in any way. At one point on the phone, when he finally realized he'd been misunderstanding me for a week, he totally cracked up and we both were laughing away realizing we'd brought all the stress of dealing with China Telecom onto ourselves.

@ bailewen: Yes, that's exactly right.

@ I-Mon: I tried that. Didn't work for me.

[Michael]

Most foreigners I know who come from English-speaking countries to China in order to be English teachers learn little Chinese, even after being here ten years or more. It seems Africans, Spanish speakers, and Middle Easterners who are business people, not teachers, learn quite quickly. Some foreigners I know who are English teachers say the reason they don't learn is that they don't want to know what the locals are saying.

As an ESL teacher, there is no need. As a businessman, there is. As an English teacher, the vast majority of the people you know are "friends" with you primarily to improve their English. You have your students, many of which will honestly think of you as a friend, but who's entire reason for knowing you initially was to learn, improve or just practice their English. Your whole raison d'être in China is to provide an English resource.

As a businessman, that is not the case. You are there to do business. You are not interacting with a bunch of English students or "western culture groupies". You will be dealing with people who not only do not speak any significant amount of English, they haven't got the time or energy to learn any English beyond a couple of hip phrases they can use at parties to sound cool or educated much like American's in the 50's of a certain social stratum used to sprinkle their speech with French.

English teachers fail to learn Chines simply because they never bother to put in the time. They speak English with their students all day at work and the school provides translators or "assistants" to deal with your landlord or getting cable internet installed so there's never any real pressure to learn. I don't believe it's got anything do to with personalities or language talent whatsoever. ESL teachers just tend not to put in the time and they have no social pressure to learn.

Great minds think alike?

[I-mon]

@ I-Mon: I tried that. Didn't work for me.

Keep trying dude! Doesn't have to be gongfu, could just as easily be judo, or tango. Whatever it's all about immediate necessity.

[Michael]

Thanks, Simon.