Einstein and Religion

[kenneth delves]

.Einstein is often quoted as one of superior intelligence who was deeply religious, possibly due to his comment on quantum mechanics that 'god does not play dice with the universe', these letters seems to put him squarely in the agnostic camp

Einstein Letter Sells for $404,000
AP
Posted: 2008-05-16 18:12:32
Filed Under: World News
LONDON (May 16) - A letter in which Albert Einstein dismissed the idea of God as the product of human weakness and the Bible as "pretty childish" has sold at auction for more than $400,000.


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Bloomsbury Auctions / AP Going Once, Going Twice ...
1 of 14 This letter, in which Albert Einstein wrote of his disdain for religion, sold for $404,000 at a London auction, Bloomsbury Auctions said Friday. The buyer was identified only as a collector with "a passion for theoretical physics." Click through to see other notable items that have been sold at auction.

Bloomsbury Auctions said Friday that the handwritten letter sold to an overseas collector after frenetic bidding late Thursday in London. The sale price of $404,000, including the buyer's premium, was more than 25 times the pre-sale estimate.

Bloomsbury did not identify the buyer, but managing director Rupert Powell said it was someone with "a passion for theoretical physics and all that that entails."

"This extraordinary letter seemed to strike a chord, and it gave a deep personal insight one of the greatest minds of the 20th century," Powell said.

The letter was written to philosopher Eric Gutkind in January 1954, a year before Einstein's death. In it, the Einstein said that "the word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."

Einstein experts say the letter supports the argument that the physicist held complex, agnostic views on religion. He rejected organized faith but often spoke of a spiritual force at work in the universe.

Einstein's most famous legacy is the special theory of relativity, which makes the point that a large amount of energy could be released from a tiny amount of matter.

The theory changed the face of physics, allowing scientists to make predictions about space and paving the way for nuclear power and the atomic bomb.

[Interloper]

Seems to me that Einstein wasn't so much "religious," as he was spiritual. He was an ethnic Jew, but didn't practice the Jewish religion; yet, he often referred to God. I'd read the various essays about Einstein's apparent agnosticism, quite a few years ago, and sensed that he had an enormous sense of awe about the universe -- especially in view of his ability to see it in its intricate mathematical beauty, something many of us cannot.

[cdobe]

Einstein used the word God as a metaphor for the nature. Like many other scientists he felt a deep reverence for nature.

[Interloper]

Yes, that's what I think too, Chris. He used "God" metaphorically to represent Nature/the Nature of the Universe. But I wonder whether he puzzled over whether there was an organic intelligence to this "Nature," or whether it was an omnipowerful kind of "force" that was not in itself a living being, but a phenomenon far beyond even Einstein's own ability to comprehend.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

what's an "ethnic jew"?

you do realize there are entirely different races of people who are jewish and not just eastern european and middle eastern.
sephards are from spain and nortjh africa, ethiopian jews are black, far eastern jews are asian and so on.

It's a religion, not an ethnicity. the ethnicity aspect would only play in the broadest sense such as eastern european jewry and there cultural aspects and sephards and ethiopians and asians and africans and now a whole whack of american and south american jews from varied nationalities and ancestry.

/rant

[Cryptohominid]

It often irritates me that because I am agnostic (and leaning toward atheist) religious people (read organized religious people with an agenda to push) accuse me of viewing the universe as a pointless mechanical accident. Or worse of being some sort of "Data", a purely logical construct with no heart or "soul". I am a fully realized human being with emotions and a deep sense of Awe about the world around me, and just like Einstein, Carl Sagan, and many others that sense of awe only deepens as I explore and begin to understand how the natural world really works.

I also have no problem with anyone's personal religious beliefs... as long as they stay that way. Because nothing in this world scares me more than a large group that believes what their anointed leader says to the extent that no evidence will sway them to a different belief. These groups are not always overtly religious (the neocons come to mind, but then again they are overtly religious) but they play by the same rules. And converting people (generally by giving seemingly easy answers to hard questions) is always one of the top priorities.

I by no means consider Al Gore a saint, but his new book "The Assault on Reason" is correct. Our country as a whole has been living on a type of religious wishful thinking since the Reagan revolution that has recently peaked under "you know who" (no, not John Chang ), and we see where that has brought us. Most of our founding fathers were humanistic Deists who I'm sure are spinning like tops in their graves over what has come to pass.

Ok, I'm just off on a rant. My apologies. Anyone with any interest in this can start with Christopher Hitchens and Bertrand Russell (nice bookends for the state of atheism in the 20th century), or try Sagan's "demon haunted world". Anyone who sees this as an affront to their religious beliefs, sorry in advance.

Dave

[Interloper]

Darth,
It's not just a religion, it's an "ethno-religion." With the exception of Ethiopian Jews, who converted around 2,000 years ago, and other small groups that adopted the Jewish faith en masse long ago, hereditary-Jews' DNA can be traced back to the Middle East. Jews were indigenous to that region until they were dispersed by the Romans after they trashed Jerusalem and brought down the remnants of the Jewish kingdom 2,000 years ago, and if you were to sample the DNA of Ashkenazic Jews in Europe, Sephardic Jews in Spain, etc., most have large numbers of genetic markers traceable back to the Middle East. They are more closely related to Arabs than to Europeans, despite having settled and lived in Europe for 1,000 years or so and having had some rape, intermarriages, etc. by Europeans.

Jews have all the pinnings of unique culture, including the Hebrew language which they carried with them around the world during their Diaspora. Their faith is a tribal religion that they have carried with them with their ancestral language, and the two are inseparable. Think of Japan's indigenous religion of Shinto. You can "convert" to the Shinto faith if you're not Japanese, but doing so doesn't make you ethnically Japanese. By the same measure, a non-Semite can convert to the Jewish faith, which is the hereditary faith of a group of Middle Eastern peoples, and he can embrace Judiasm, but he won't suddenly switch from being Anglo-Saxon to Semite.

And btw, there's no such thing as "race."

what's an "ethnic jew"?

you do realize there are entirely different races of people who are jewish and not just eastern european and middle eastern.
sephards are from spain and nortjh africa, ethiopian jews are black, far eastern jews are asian and so on.

It's a religion, not an ethnicity. the ethnicity aspect would only play in the broadest sense such as eastern european jewry and there cultural aspects and sephards and ethiopians and asians and africans and now a whole whack of american and south american jews from varied nationalities and ancestry.

/rant

[kenneth delves]

I think the capacity to be awe struck by the magnificence of the universe may well be built into our genes, this is different to having a need to follow a religion. I think Einstein like any creative person realized that a human cannot intellectually grasp this magnificence, that it comes from some other place.A person who believes in a god feels that this magnificence needs a creator otherwise somehow life has no meaning, others[myself included] seem to get along just fine without
this [man made]construct,

[Chris Fleming]

All proper respect to Einstein and all but I don't go to him for spiritual guidance.

[rakushun]

Man made constructs are good.