!2 Years a Slave

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Re: !2 Years a Slave

Postby Steve James on Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:35 am

I am more interested in learning the full history from quality books and people.


Have you read "12 Years a Slave"? But, that gets to the issue of what "history" (or his story) is. Northrup was a real person, not a movie character. The movie is just a visualization of his book. Someone had to read his book before anyone could think of making it into a film.

Imo, if someone is really interested in learning "history," it is best to read primary sources. When it comes to the enslavement of Africans in the American south, there were two primary literary sources. The first were the "plantation diaries" that were kept by slave owners or visitors to their plantations. Poor White people didn't write books about their lives, but we can read their letters, especially those from the CW. However, by far, the most prevalent form of non-fiction were the "fugitive slave narratives." All of these were first-person eyewitness accounts of the period. You can't get no better. Whether they were right or wrong, they weren't lying for our benefit. The arguments are sincere whether we agree or not.

When it comes to fiction, otoh, the story is different. In the Southern novels written about slavery after the Civil War, the slaves are almost always faithful and happy. They gladly accept their status and servitude, and they never rebelled. These "plantation stories" became America's preferred interpretation of "history." The most important films of the first half of the 20th century were "Birth of a Nation" and "Gone With the Wind." If you haven't seen them, do so. In fact, Woodrow Wilson (then POTUS) wrote an introduction to "Birth of a Nation" and had the film shown in the White House. After watching, Wilson is said to have remarked; ""It is like writing history with lightning, and my only regret is that it is all so terribly true.""
Well, watch for yourself and make up your mind.
https://archive.org/details/dw_griffith ... f_a_nation

However, remember that the film "is" history; i.e., it reflects what the people who made it were thinking at the time. One can argue whether it is more or less like Gone With the Wind. But, those were --and for many still are-- illustrations of how most Americans were taught history --until relatively recently and people suddenly became fed up with hearing different :)

Anyway, here's an example of a "plantation diary" that I mentioned. It addresses some of the issues about poor Whites, indentured Irish and their relation to Blacks. Simply put, the author asked how many of them would gladly trade places. But, read for yourself, and there's a link.

PREFACE.

The following diary was kept in the winter and spring of 1838-9, on an estate consisting of rice and cotton plantations, in the islands at the entrance of the Altamaha, on the coast of Georgia.

The slaves in whom I then had an unfortunate interest were sold some years ago. The islands themselves are at present in the power of the Northern troops. The record contained in the following pages is a picture of conditions of human existence which I hope and believe have passed away.

LONDON:
January 16, 1863.

JOURNAL.

Philadelphia: December 1838.

My Dear E——. I return you Mr. ——'s letter. I do not think it answers any of the questions debated in our last conversation at all satisfactorily: the right one man has to enslave another, he has not the hardihood to assert; but in the reasons he adduces to defend that act of injustice, the contradictory statements he makes appear to me to refute each other. He says, that to the continental European protesting against the abstract iniquity of slavery, his answer would be, 'the slaves are infinitely better off than half the continental peasantry.' To the Englishman, 'they are happy compared with the miserable Irish.' But supposing that this answered the question of original injustice, which it does not, it is not a true reply. Though the negroes are fed, clothed, and housed, and though the Irish peasant is starved, naked, and roofless, the bare name of freeman—the lordship over his own person, the power to choose and will—are blessings beyond food, raiment, or shelter; possessing which, the want of every comfort of life is yet more tolerable than their fullest enjoyment without them. Ask the thousands of ragged destitutes who yearly land upon these shores to seek the means of existence—ask the friendless, penniless foreign emigrant, if he will give up his present misery, his future uncertainty, his doubtful and difficult struggle for life, at once, for the secure, and as it is called, fortunate dependance of the slave: the indignation with which he would spurn the offer will prove that he possesses one good beyond all others, and that his birthright as a man is more precious to him yet than the mess of pottage for which he is told to exchange it because he is starving.
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/12422/12422-h/12422-h.htm

Or, read Thomas Thistlewood's diary http://uncpress.unc.edu/browse/page/241

Btw, Limbaugh and others don't realize that this subject has been "popular" since the 18th century when the first major slave narratives emerged. He doesn't get that the plot of being captured, carried away, then escaping and succeeding in spite of extreme difficulties is simply an interesting story that captures the human imagination. When you watch a movie like "The Fugitive" or any movie where someone is unjustly imprisoned, it's the same motif. Oh, and the other theme straight out of the narratives of the period is "rags to riches." That has become the "American" motif; but, in the 18th and 19th century, there were no bigger leaps from the bottom to the top than people like Douglass and Washington (Booker T., that is).
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Re: !2 Years a Slave

Postby Michael on Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:07 am

Steve, no, I haven't read 12 Years as a Slave. Wish I were a faster reader, lol. Thanks for the other links.

I've tried to watch Birth of a Nation, but can't stomach the tone of the film, or something. Half my family (not me!!) are Southern Jurisdiction Freemasons. Maybe it's still a bit too close.

I've seen Gone with the Wind in bits and pieces on TV when I was a kid. Tried to watch it on DVD and couldn't take it. I think I'd be able to watch the Mystery Science Theater 3000 versions. I need some kind of mental lubricant to handle that stuff. -joint-
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Re: !2 Years a Slave

Postby Steve James on Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:31 am

Hey, if people don't like the stories where slaves are treated badly, Birth of a Nation will be a change of pace. It would have won every Academy Award if they had existed; and, there were plenty of people who took the film as history. Gone With the Wind was a family event whenever Gone With the Wind came on tv. For one thing, Hattie McDaniel won Best Supporting Actress for her portrayal of a maid (the first Oscar ever awarded a Black American :) Btw, neither of these films showed many slaves. They were about the relationships between people (particularly Rhett and Scarlett).
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Re: !2 Years a Slave

Postby Interloper on Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:09 pm

I don't think I ever watched "GWTW" all the way through when it was shown in those late-night UHF-channel showings, because it's nothing more than a cheesy soap opera or "bodice-ripper" chick novella, sort of a "Fifty Shades of Gray" of its day. I hated that kind of stuff and still do, so if there was any social message embedded in it, it was entirely lost on me. :P

OTOH, I did grow up watching such fare as the Mary Martin/Cyril Ritchard production of "Peter Pan," which, like Judy Garland's "Wizard of Oz" was shown annually on the local stations. Only as an adult did I realize the whole thing about the "Indians as noble savages" portrayed by J.M. Barrie in his fantasy book, and their depiction as pidgin-speaking fantasy characters in the made-for-TV play, as totally un-politically correct, albeit with the "best of intensions" and entirely socially acceptable (in non-American Indian society, that is) in both the 19th century and the mid-20th century. I mean, the "Ugga-wugga" song should have been a real tip-off... :P

African-American slavery and the slave trade were introduced subjects when I was in junior high school (as were the Shoah/Holocaust and the Trail of Tears), in the late-60s and early 70s after the Civil Rights movement's victory in '65. The landscape of television started changing at that point. "GWTW" was still played as late-night UHF channel movie fare, but the local channels stopped showing the 1960 "Peter Pan."
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Re: !2 Years a Slave

Postby Andy_S on Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:36 pm

SNIP
I know of no other nation that went to war with itself in an attempt to preserve slavery (since we're comparing countries.)
SNIP

I can't think of one either but I can think of many (most?) countries which have undergone:
Large-slave rebellions; or
Peasant rebellions/civil wars; or
Caste and/or class revolutions/civil wars.

In essence, the above are all the same thing:
A group of disadvantaged persons fighting to free themselves of an injustice related to their birth status, and which they are (largely) powerless to change without resorting to violence.

Though I grant you, the black slavery in the Americas (both North and South) was probably one of the worst, most extreme examples of this once-universal institution. Perhaps Steve can shed more light on how it compares with slavery elsewhere in the world in the 19th century.

Steve:

Do you teach slavery per se, black American history, American history, all of the above - or something completely different...?
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Re: !2 Years a Slave

Postby Steve James on Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:47 pm

Do you teach slavery per se, black American history, American history, all of the above - or something completely different...?


My specialty is "Black" literature and history in the Americas, so it involves more than "African American" literature in English. But my diss was in 19th century Black American. I teach the "slave narrative" as an essential type of 19th century American literature.

People often portray slavery in the American south as the worst, but it wasn't because the physical conditions were the worst. Writers of the day would have said that the biggest difference was that the "slave" in the US was legally defined as less than human. In fact, the US is the only country with a tradition of narratives written by escaped slaves. Other countries may have a few, but the US has hundreds. The primary reason that so many were written is because the act of writing and the skill of literacy put the lie to the claims that some people couldn't be educated, and therefore were in their proper place as slaves.

One reason for reading the people from back then is to recognize that they addressed all the arguments that come up now and then. Try David Walker, for ex, from 1830 http://docsouth.unc.edu/nc/walker/walker.html
He gives a fiery history lesson. In fact, a Black person having a copy in the South rated the death penalty. Walker, himself, ended up dead on his doorstep.

From a social pov, it's interesting that people who led rebellions never wrote narratives --or, imho, the idea of rebellion just wasn't in anybody's script. Escaping was rebellion enough. Learning to read and write and telling the story of one's escape from enslavement to liberty was a rebellion. Of course, I ask my students why it was that the slaves didn't all just rise up and slice all their masters' throats.

If "poor whites" were against slavery --as some claim-- and the slaves outnumbers masters 1,000 to one, if they both got together there's no way slavery could have survived. But, as we know, people circled the wagons to support slavery. Slave narratives weren't big sellers in the south. The #1 most popular book was a novel, Uncle Tom's Cabin. But, by this time, slave narratives have become an influential literary form. This only happens in the US.
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Re: !2 Years a Slave

Postby grzegorz on Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:27 am

I wasn't aware of post civil war concentration camps for freed slaves in which the Union collaborated with. An estimated 20,000 dead at this site alone.

http://hw-mobile.worldstarhiphop.com/u/ ... 000&rs=850
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Re: !2 Years a Slave

Postby windwalker on Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:55 pm

Andy_S wrote:Just watched this with my (14-year-old) daughter. She was in tears and I was stunned.

This is easily one of the most harrowing films I have ever seen; it rivals "Schindlers List," "The Killing Fields" and "Crossing" in that regard. But from a film-makers perspective, it is very matter-of-fact, even restrained; there is no element of melodrama. This makes it one of the most powerful works of art I can recall.

If you have not seen it, do so.



You do know that slavery is alive and well today.
Why not be stunned about whats happening to today

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao7FKReHYKY


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Re: !2 Years a Slave

Postby Steve James on Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:07 pm

Why not be stunned about whats happening to today


Valid point. However, one could also look at it this way.

"Schindler's List" = German history
"The Killing Fields" = Cambodian history
"12 Years a Slave" = American history

Still, it's true that we (Americans) should not let our history make us ignore the atrocities that are still being committed. Otoh, it is very possible to do both ;) Though, it's sad if films are the primary way people learn their history.
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Re: !2 Years a Slave

Postby grzegorz on Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:50 pm

windwalker wrote:
Andy_S wrote:Just watched this with my (14-year-old) daughter. She was in tears and I was stunned.

This is easily one of the most harrowing films I have ever seen; it rivals "Schindlers List," "The Killing Fields" and "Crossing" in that regard. But from a film-makers perspective, it is very matter-of-fact, even restrained; there is no element of melodrama. This makes it one of the most powerful works of art I can recall.

If you have not seen it, do so.



You do know that slavery is alive and well today.
Why not be stunned about whats happening to today

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao7FKReHYKY


.


One will never understand the present without understanding the past.
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Re: !2 Years a Slave

Postby Michael on Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:15 am

Steve James wrote:Though, it's sad if films are the primary way people learn their history.

I watched 12 years for the first time last year and thought it was an excellent introductory film. If you're going to hit a big topic for mass consumption, and try to be accurate, this is the way to do it. The film-makers really found a sweet spot for telling a difficult-to-hear story.
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Re: !2 Years a Slave

Postby Steve James on Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:03 am

Well, the problem is that films have to over-simplify issues and events or compress them. Solomon Northrup's story was/is part of a much larger narrative. For example, imo, it would be helpful if someday someone made a film about the Africans who were here before the English colonists, or make a movie about the period in the English colonies when there wasn't slavery, or even make a movie about White indentured servants. There are a lot more interesting, and enlightening, stories that aren't told. That's the problem.
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Re: !2 Years a Slave

Postby Michael on Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:56 am

I felt that 12 Years dealt with a shocking subject without overwhelming the audience (me, lol) with too much info. or too much graphic horror, but allowed some of the real horror of the situation sink in slowly, such as the scene towards the end when Northrup was reunited with his family. If it had focused more on the physical brutality, or had failed to provide some mental escapes or breathers for the audience, such as the one slave who was rescued by his loving master off the boat, I think I would have reflexively rejected more of the story out of disgust, regardless of its truth. There's just so much bad news a person can handle in one sitting, which reminds me of alternative interpretations of Kubrick's "The Shining", that it was a sideways approach to Indian genocide. If so, then a good example of telling a bad news story without turning off the audience, although I heard King hated it, lol.

There are a lot more interesting, and enlightening, stories that aren't told. That's the problem.

You don't have to spend zillions of dollars to make a full-length feature film for a topic, so I'd love to see more video history introductions. I mean, why not? I think it's possible a good film came be made for a hundred thou, how does that compare to the cost of a textbook? It's probably just as good or better to teach some topics from films than from school texts.
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Re: !2 Years a Slave

Postby yeniseri on Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:41 am

Steve James wrote:Well, the problem is that films have to over-simplify issues and events or compress them. Solomon Northrup's story was/is part of a much larger narrative. For example, imo, it would be helpful if someday someone made a film about the Africans who were here before the English colonists, or make a movie about the period in the English colonies when there wasn't slavery, or even make a movie about White indentured servants. There are a lot more interesting, and enlightening, stories that aren't told. That's the problem.


An excellent point! Northrup's situation was more well know because there was a legal reference in the social milieu of the era! Though I am learning more abut the US Civil War era, I came across an article in Civil War magazine about a woman similarly trafficked and she mentioned that it was legal as long as the militia sent these nameless thugs while hiding the merchants and landowners whose goal was to usurp any law that prevented them from legally hiring 'workers' and paying them. Not too much different from today regarding the legacy of people trafficking, cheap labour and using 3rd party thugs to hijack the natural commons and sow dissent amondt the legislated "winner and losers" while pretending otherwise.
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Re: !2 Years a Slave

Postby Steve James on Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:38 pm

Yeah. I've probably said it before, but imo all "great" films are about people and their relationships. The problem is that many movies are about the evils of slavery, and somebody has to be the villain. Because the subject of slavery in this country is put in "white v black" terms. Hey, "Django Unchained" was refreshing because of the Black villain (ok, it was S.L. Jackson, but still):).

I remember Beegs used to bring up White slavery (in the U.S.). Why not a movie about that?
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