the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Now people are legitimizing slavery through false correlation. Okay. WTF?

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:Now people are legitimizing slavery through false correlation. Okay. WTF?

Exactly! If that video wanted to discuss slavery around the world and in history then fine but the premise is that African slavery in the US is only taught to make white people feel guilty. Yes, people actually believe this stuff but then again they also fought a civil war and were willing to start their own country over the issue so I suppose it should not come as a surprise.

I haven't watched any of the video, but social justice warriors are saying ridiculous things, such as white pepole have no right to speak about many topics because their ancestors enslaved blacks. I think that's why there is a promotion of the incorrect idea that "African slavery in the US is only taught to make white people feel guilty". Obviously that's not the reason we are taught history, but that is coming as a response to equally absurd accusations.

Michael wrote:I haven't watched any of the video, but social justice warriors are saying ridiculous things, such as white pepole have no right to speak about many topics because their ancestors enslaved blacks. I think that's why there is a promotion of the incorrect idea that "African slavery in the US is only taught to make white people feel guilty". Obviously that's not the reason we are taught history, but that is coming as a response to equally absurd accusations.

Sorry, but some people making stupid comments is not an excuse for other people to make stupid comments.

Also, "social justice warriors" is a loaded term, and probably not particularly helpful. Who are these people saying that "white people have no right to speak about many topics?" Are they in positions of authority? We have people in the administration right now calling slaves "immigrants." Your comparison is ridiculous.

Yeah, I'm just trying to give context. I think they're both stupid.

Social justice warriors is a label, sometimes it's perjorative, it is what some identify as, and it's also a legal term in human rights courts. I know it's loaded, but it's also accurate.

So Ben Carson made some reference to slaves as immigrants? Do you think it's worth my time checking the context, or was this just some kind of unfortunate analogy?

It didn't seem to me that it could in any way be excused by context, more that it was just another ignorant comment from a total fool (Pyramids being grain silos comes to mind). I don't think it was malicious at all, but that doesn't matter. It is just another display of total incompetence and lack of knowledge from this administration. Well, there are some competent people in the admin, but they are out to fleece the people. The non-Wall Street people really seem unqualified (Devos, Carson, Spicer, Sessions, Perry, Trump, etc). I'm reserving judgment on McMasters as he is fresh and I also like some of what I have heard from him.

I also suppose it's worth mentioning that Obama said something quite similar, although it was qualified. Still, I think it was a mistake when he said it, too.

Well, I think arguing about whether someone called African slaves immigrants or not isn't the same as arguing whether African slaves were immigrants. Slaves weren't immigrating, they were being brought by European slave traders. Ah, but then there's the point that the Africans were legally bought from other Africans. But, Africans didn't bring them on African ships to be sold. Africans didn't sign up for passage on those ships in order to come to the Americas to work (for nothing) as slaves.

So, were they immigrants like Columbus, or like the Pilgrims, or like the English colonists, or like the Italian immigrants, or were they like Mexican migrant workers, or Syrian refugees?

Now, there is probably more to be gained from a study of Africans who actually were explorers, like Columbus, or true immigrants who came (and come) voluntarily. They tend to be over-achievers, but I'd argue that is precisely because they are immigrants.

Btw, focusing on slavery as a cause of White guilt is interesting, since almost all racial policies in this country emerged after the Civil War. Those policies were enshrined by the Supreme Court until the middle of the 20th century. "Jim Crow" laws, I'd argue, have much more to do with the present situation. There are plenty of people alive today who lived through that period. If there's something to be ashamed of, or guilty about, it's that.

I must say I am finding the book quite a page turner

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/45631/4 ... 5631-h.htm

It's even more interesting because it's a true story. Btw, there are thousands of "fugitive slave narratives" written by those who were fortunate enough to escape. I always tell my students that they shouldn't be able pass the course unless they can write at least as well as an 18th or 19th century ex-slave. I can post lots of examples.

finished now. It was quite well written on the whole, the descriptive style somewhat similar to 'Walden' which was the book I read previously and also oddly enough dealing with a similar time in history 1840s-1850s USA

Michael wrote:I haven't watched any of the video, but social justice warriors are saying ridiculous things, such as white pepole have no right to speak about many topics because their ancestors enslaved blacks. I think that's why there is a promotion of the incorrect idea that "African slavery in the US is only taught to make white people feel guilty". Obviously that's not the reason we are taught history, but that is coming as a response to equally absurd accusations.

I have never heard anyone say white people can't discuss slavery. If someone did say that it was probably because someone was being insensitive and saying these things from this very thread in an attempt to down play slavery and the fact that African slaves built the South on their free labor.

neijia_boxer wrote:according to this radio show (I trust this guys fact checking on history)- USA has a very small percentage of slaves than did the Caribbean and South America.

Enslaved Africas: 40% went to Caribbean islands, 37% Pourtugese Brazil, 15% Spanish America, 5% British north america, 3% europe and Asia.

More slaves have been white people (Slaves= Slavic) . Greek society was dependent on slaves.

6% of southern whites owned black slaves.

slavery was indegenous to African and Muslim countries well before Europe.

US Consensus In 1830 in Charelston SC, 407 blacks owned slaves.

28% of Free blacks owned slaves, much higher than whites.

People who were against slaves were poor whites since it brought down the price of labor.

Europeans are the ones that lead the fight against slavery, but Europeans are blamed for slavery.

As I was saying earlier I don't mind if we compare US slavery to slavery in other cultures and countries but the problem with the above post and conversations like it is that they seem to want to say that US slavery is a non-issue in which case I would proudly call myself a social justice warrior if it means that I completely disagree with that sentiment.

The book I read before Walden was 'American Nations' - chapter 7 begins with a description of the slave plantation system in Barbados and how it migrated to the southeastern US... also very interesting...

An in depth look at slavery from that perspective would be interesting.

grzegorz wrote:An in depth look at slavery from that perspective would be interesting.

There are two perspectives: the slaves' and the masters'. The slave narratives can make gripping reading. http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/17/opinion/g ... narrative/
But, the diaries of slave owners can be equally interesting, for different reasons. For ex., https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2 ... iary/?_r=0

There's http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/barrow.htm and several others.