Obama fights election fraud

[C-Hopkins]

Just heard on msnbc that obama's camp is seeking an federal investigation citing collusion between the Bush white house and the McCain campain to steal the election.

http://www.freep.com/article/20081017/NEWS15/81017065

[Michael]

Election fraud is widespread in the US.

[Steve James]

I'm more worried about systematic attempts to prevent legitimate voters from voting:

"Ohio Democrats Win at Top U.S. Court in Voting Fight (Update4)

By Greg Stohr

Oct. 17 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. Supreme Court, siding with Democrats, freed Ohio officials from a lower court order that might have limited participation by new voters in next month's presidential election.

Today's ruling means Ohio Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner doesn't have to provide county election boards with lists of new registrants whose information doesn't match up with government databases. A federal trial judge had ordered Brunner, a Democrat, to supply the lists by today.

The Supreme Court said Republicans who sued Brunner ``are not sufficiently likely to prevail'' because the provision of federal law they invoked doesn't authorize private suits. The two-page unsigned order was issued on behalf of the full court, without any published dissent.

Brunner said the judge's order could have affected as many as 200,000 Ohioans, potentially forcing them to cast provisional ballots instead of regular ballots. Democrats likely would have been disproportionately affected by the judge's order because of the party's efforts to register new voters this year.

Ohio is a crucial state for Republican presidential candidate John McCain in his race against Democrat Barack Obama. Without Ohio's 20 electoral votes, McCain would have to carry every other state that voted for George W. Bush in 2004, plus one that voted Democratic. Recent polls indicate Obama has pulled even or ahead in Ohio, a state Bush won by less than 118,000 votes four years ago.

Weeding Out Fraud

The Ohio Republican Party accused Brunner of ignoring her duty under a federal law to help weed out fraudulent registrations. The dispute was one of several fights that have made Ohio a center of legal controversy leading up to the Nov. 4 election.

McCain campaign manager Rick Davis in a statement said Brunner is seeking to ``minimize the level of fairness and transparency in this election.''

Brunner ``has fought at every opportunity the appeals of the people of the state and the county boards of election to provide an oversight of this election so it's done in a free, fair and open matter,'' said John McClelland, spokesman for the Ohio Republican Party."

[Michael]

Story in Rolling Stone from investigative reporter Greg Palast says GOP preparing to steal election. Greg Palast has been at the forefront of investigations into presidential election fraud since the 2000 and 2004 thefts.

[C-Hopkins]

Steve~
This is the same thing the Obama campaign is seeking to prevent now~

The story broke 8:20 pm last night, and I haven't seen anything else about it yet, though I haven't been watching.

In essence the O campain is saying that through doing things like going after acorn, the GOP is beginning a push twords stealing the next election ~
O is launching a preemptive strike against this and it seems he won't lay down like the pussy democrats have done the last 2 times.

What I love about this is that it shows that whether a plan is in place or not, it doesn't mean that it cannot be disrupted and even shut down.

This is a brilliant strategic move on the part of the Obama campain, and mark me well,
It may mean the difference between Obama getting in or not.

[Royal Dragon]

A.C.O.R.N. is the leading perpetrator of voter registration fraud right now. They are so in bed with the Dems that they may as well be Obama's left testicle(or sucking on it). I don't think the GOP is where we need to be looking right now.

[C-Hopkins]

LOL

The Supreme Courts allready ruled against that allegation.
http://jonathanturley.org/2008/10/18/supreme-court-rules-against-gop-voter-challenge-in-ohio-while-obama-campaign-calls-for-investigation-in-fbimccain-links/

More Republican Spin.

{I'm not saying your generating the spin by the way RD, the McCain campain is using this as another smear tactic against the Obama campain}

[Steve James]

Well, the story with ACORN is that there were some workers who made $8 p/h for registering people. So, they gave cigarettes and other perks to homeless people in exchange for them registering to vote. It's a screwed up practice, and ACORN operates primarily in lower-income areas, which voters are wooed the hardest by the Democrats. They really don't need to be in bed with the Democratic party, anyway.

It's easy to condemn such practices. They're wrong, obviously. But, it is not the same as trying to use the law to prevent legitimate votes being counted. Iinm, ACORN pointed out some of the bad practices on its own. They disagree on the extent of the problem.

Funny, though, the last two elections have been controversial, too. Why would anyone believe that the same thing wouldn't happen this time, and that those who have done it already wouldn't continue to do. "Past action is the best predictor of future action."

[C-Hopkins]

Funny, though, the last two elections have been controversial, too. Why would anyone believe that the same thing wouldn't happen this time, and that those who have done it already wouldn't continue to do. "Past action is the best predictor of future action."

That's my thing too.

Past is prologue, and the GOP has clearly come to think that they're entitled (you know what I mean) to do these things for their own reasons-


I think one could build an objective psycological profile regarding the collective psyche of the GOP that validates your concern Steve, given the fact that so many of their practices over the last 8 years have tended twords an anti-populous under the guise of psuedo-democratic perspective.

[Royal Dragon]

As any Futures trader will tell you, "Past Performance is not indicative of Future results."

If you want to assess blame in election fraud, i would submit it does not matter. The USA has already been Copted and the entire election process is now just a facade to cover the fact that the United States of America no longer exists, and hasn't for a good 12 to 15 years.

[C-Hopkins]

The USA has already been Copted and the entire election process is now just a facade to cover the fact that the United States of America no longer exists, and hasn't for a good 12 to 15 years.

This sounds to be the Builderberger conspiracy theory which is pretty clearly extrapolation of paranoid assumption based upon observation of facts which are shrowded in secrecy. Thus the fearfull mind draws the worst types of negative conclusions out of uncertainty and unknowing. This coupled with probable disinformation by concerned parties and distrust of those in power leads to the level of sentiment recently expressed on the internet.

I submit that there is no imperical data to back up the subject.

Unless you have some to show?


Beyond that, With regards to Future trading, to objectively observe the actions of the individual and draw psycological profiles based upon the anatomy of the psyche is hardly future trading-

Based upon action and emotion, and patterning within the context of these two factors, one can map out pretty effectively an individuals nature.

Given the fact that people do not change unless they WANT to, unless the parties being discussed as individuals have decided upon a path of self cultivation or to seek assistance visa vi professional treatment, it's fairly safe to assume they'll repeat the same patterns that thay have expressed in this situation as well as in others.

Karl Rove for instance is known as "The Architect".
He has masterminded the winning of many elections via dirty means which have been doccumented well.This is a product of emotional patterning.

Having said that, again I think it is important o understand the nature of "big" government and that there are conspiracies- none so set in stone as to not be derailed.

Nature is much to frenetic to be controlled at the level it would take to master mind a conspiracy such as the ones that have been postulated on this and other sites , and unfortunately for those so inclined to feed into it, the only prize for winning that arguement...

Is a FEMA camp for your mind.

I'll leave you guys to it.

Peace,

C

[Steve James]

As any Futures trader will tell you, "Past Performance is not indicative of Future results."

That wasn't what I meant. But, if you were a women whose husband has beaten her the last eight years every Friday night, I'd say that it would be a good idea for you to move out before next Friday. Otoh, on the same hand, actually, if your wife comes home smelling like man's cologne at 3am every Friday, it's more than likely that she's seeing someone. Nothing certain, mind you. Of course, if you've caught her before, and confront her now, she'll say "You are just paranoid." Yet, sure as shit, if you catch her (or him), the first thing they'll say is "You were doing it too."

Tbat's just the psychological pattern. It's easy to spot, once you know what to look for.

[Teazer]

The trading example should be fairly consistent with this. In pretty much all markets, generally speaking the best estimate of what the price will be tomorrow is what it is today (+ a tiny amount of interest). The past performance quote is in terms of actual returns rather than expected returns or prices.

[Steve James]

I think that the difference is between 'performance' and 'actions.' My point related to the way people behave, not what happens from that behavior. If it were a trading metaphor, it'd be something like "If stock traded today, it will trade tomorrow." That doesn't mean it'll trade for more or less, only that "trading" will happen. If it's a relationship, then the word would be "cheating" or "lying." My grandma always said, "If they'll lie about a little thing, there's no reason they won't lie about a big thing." She'd say that we'd be crazy to give any money to the banks who say they need it... because we know what they'll "do." There's no reason to believe that they won't.

This principle would certainly apply to "traders", if not to the stocks they sell. If they cheat you, that's what they will do. If the "board" finds out, they'll get sacked, no? Anyway, that's the difference between the analogies.

[internalenthusiast]

yeah, if i understand, the difference is not so much between "performance of a security", as it is "behavior of individuals (or groups/institutions)".

steve says: "If it's a relationship, then the word would be "cheating" or "lying.""

yep. if my stockbroker lies to me, i'd be smart to fire him. irrespective of the values of the securities concerned. if my wife has a series of affairs, i might do well to consider whether i want to be in the relationship. in this sense we might consider past to be prologue. behavior of individuals or groups, is different from the value of a security.

re: ACORN. if they are guilty as accused, i can't agree with that behavior. it's wrong.

at the same time, practically, registering dead people, or people who can't vote, is not the same as preventing viable voters from voting. it will not change the "market value" of the candidate, even if it is wrong behavior.

it is fraud, but fraud between the employees of ACORN and the management.

this is different from effectually defrauding the country--which would be actually changing the "market value" of a candidate.

in either case, fraud should be taken seriously. but one shouldn't claim one kind of fraud is another kind of fraud.

ps: here we go: http://www.newsweek.com/id/164722/page/1

newsweek/factcheck.org on the situation