Papyrus mentioning "wife of Jesus" is deemed authentic

[Taste of Death]

Simon Schama's new book "The Story of the Jews" may be of interest to those commenting in this thread.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2014/apr/24/story-of-jews-what-a-saga/?insrc=toc

[Interloper]

The Magdelenian period was a pre-historic era in which female fertility was worshipped in some way. Caves in Europe were found containing statuettes of pregnant, large-butted/breasted women. This went on for tens of thousands of years. Possiblyl they were talismans for ensuring fertility, and some scientists believe that at in early fertility worshipping cultures, humans observed females getting pregnant and giving birth, and perhaps thought that women were the source of creation. So, goddesses were powerful.

Then, some wiseacre put two-and-two together and figured that the male was involved in baby-making somehow. Then, the pendulum swung totally the opposite way with the belief that men contained "seed" and that women were "vessels" for the implanting and nurturing of that seed. So, men because the origin of creation... and religions or belief systems went from matriarchal to patriarchal. Hence, Lilit and Ashtoret got the boot outta the Garden. And, there came a law about not "spilling seed"... as every precious sperm was thought to be a tiny, complete homunculus waiting to be nurtured within a female "vessel."

[Interloper]

https://www.boundless.com/art-history/p ... figurines/

[Taste of Death]

The Magdelenian period was a pre-historic era in which female fertility was worshipped. Caves in France and, I think, Spain were found containing scores of stone statuettes of pregnant, large-butted/breasted women. This went on for tens of thousands of years, possibly because humans observed females getting pregnant and giving birth, and not connecting the sex act with males as part of that. Somehow, women were the source of creation.

Then, some wiseacre put two-and-two together and figured that the male was involved. Then, the pendulum swung totally the opposite way with the belief that men contained "seed" and that women were "vessels" for the implanting and nurturing of that seed. So, men because the origin of creation... and religions or belief systems went from matriarchal to patriarchal. Hence, Lilit and Ashtoret got the boot outta the Garden. That's my take, and I'm stickin' to it.

Was Dan Harden around back then?

[Doc Stier]

Pffft! The highly biased atheistic opinions and absurd pseudo-theological conjecture offered on this thread in regard to an irrelevant 'artifact' is a dead on arrival non-starter for discussion in most circles.

The only people who even care about this in the least seem to be mostly those with a personal anti-religion, anti-Christian, anti-Roman Catholic axe to grind, imo.

[Steve James]

The claim that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and the "holy grail -- holy blood" thesis, specifically, is much older that the Da Vinci Code books.

Btw, the Cathars (Christian sect) believed that the soul and spirit in general were genderless. So, women were spiritually equal to men and could hold high positions in the church. Of course, some of the theories about the grail claim and the "sang real" are connected to the region where the Cathars held their last stand. They were annihilated because they wouldn't convert to Catholicism. (They were considered heretics, but the real reason was that they threatened the political power of the church). Anyway, in one town, a few hundred were marched out of their stronghold and burned in a pit.

In those days, dogma was a matter of life and death.

[Steve James]

Well, after it was found, the Vatican claimed it to be a relatively modern forgery. The researchers simply showed that it was written in the 800s. So, it wasn't a forgery. The controversy, they understood, would be about what the text said. The lead researcher specified that the text did not say that Jesus was married:

'The fragment does not provide evidence that the historical Jesus was married but concerns an early Christian debate over whether women who are wives and mothers can be disciples of Jesus.'

No matter her caveat, however, it's probably going to make Christians scream in a thousand tongues. Which is probably the most interesting aspect of all this, as she said to the Boston Globe:

"I'm basically hoping that we can move past the issue of forgery to questions about the significance of this fragment for the history of Christianity, for thinking about questions like, 'Why does Jesus being married, or not, even matter? Why is it that people had such an incredible reaction to this?'"

[wiesiek]

not >pffft< Doc.,
its nuke detonated in the hearth of All male C.C.
IF females are really even in spirit measurements , we will soon see female Pope chosen fast!

[Doc Stier]

Pfffft! What a hoot! LOL

[river rider]

"Authentic" as used here simply means that this fragment is not a modern or late medieval forgery. There is a vast trove of writings from the period of early Christianity, and an early task of the Church was to determine which of these gospels etc represented or were consistent with the words of Jesus and the most widely recognized texts of early Christianity. A lot of stuff didn't make the cut... the reasons why were documented and are available, although there are controversies as always with everything. A large number, and I suspect this fragment too, represented the views of the Gnostics, and it was a while before their influence diminished in the early churches. Some of the lesser known branches of Christianity in the near east still have some scriptural texts that are not accepted by traditional Catholics and Protestants in their bibles. Most of these other texts are readily available. If interested, you might try The Nag Hammadi Scriptures (it's on the net as well as in book form), or The Lost Books of the Bible (might be out of print, but I still see it second hand a lot).

I think our current Christian Bible was largely finalized at the end of the fourth century (I note the minor differences between Catholic and Protestant versions) BTW, we're talking about the NT here, but there were similar issues in the OT... the Jews had variant scriptures that got combined in exile resulting, for instance, in two slightly different creation stories found in today's OT.
'

[wiesiek]

really doesn`t matter,
trash all of them , and write new one.
If you unable to contact your personal highest been, via- aka strings, your shit is fake , anyway,
so
you don`t have to write a word

[Interloper]

Doc,
Don't take this thread too seriously.

[Doc Stier]

Hahaha! Believe me, I'm not!

[wiesiek]

`cause To many lives taken for nothing to heaven ?
easy Doc,
it is continuum,
we are just poppy seeds, standing in the line,
you may jump, but of course,

....eventually ...



all questions marks
dissolve itself
anyway

[Doc Stier]

Oh, wow, man! That's like so...totally deep, dude. The Poppy Seed Manifesto. Awesome!