Time For Bonnie Scotland to Fuck Off?

[AllanF]

Andy re Brown being in reserve, i have heard...on the BBC last night that Brown was meant to lead the BT side but Cameron vetoed it.

In my mind Cameron is not fit to run a bath never mind a country. At every crisis in his tenure he has been unable to make decisions. From the London Riots to the indyref. It was DC who forced the issue, it was DC who took DevoMax off the table, he said he wasn't getting involved but when it started to go pear shaped he did just that, then they threw in Devo(not-so)Max after postal votes had already been cast. And there remains very real questions about what if any new powers will get through the Commons even before it hits the Lords.

I personally feel that devolved powers will be extended to England, and more powers to Wales and NI. We are all walking down a road that i feel has only one logical destination.

All that said, it is done now.
It has been a wonderful experience and reinvigorated not only myself but the populous at large politically. It has not been nasty, and divisive to the extent that media did their best to portray, the head of the police in Scotland gave the media a smack down on that issue.

I do feel very proud in the way the debate was carried out with the eyes and ears of the world watching and listening intently. And i can say democracy is alive in Scotland, i hope the rest of the UK stands up and speaks with the same vigor and passion.

The vote was one of the reasons for me returning to Scotland and i am very happy i did.

[RobP2]

A victory for the Establishment and in particular the BBC. I've never seen such bias in an election, you expect it from Murdoch and co but for me this has destroyed any remaining credibility the BBC had as an impartial news service. I feel it is a vote for fear, not a vote for anything constructive, and the promises from Westminster will soon evaporate. A missed opportunity....

[AllanF]

Rob, when i first went to China i was proud of the "impartiality" of the BBC...after a short time living there it became glaringly obvious that they are no less biased in their coverage than CCTV. They just go about it differently, but you are spot on, this referendum has exposed the ugly side of mainstream media for all to see.

Your comments about it being a vote for fear and not one for anything constructive, i also agree with, i have an English friend of mine who, is a Yes chap all the way and his primary reason was it was a more hopeful vote than a No. But fear is a powerful motivator.

[Andy_S]

RE: Above posts
Glad to see that British cynicism is alive and well - perhaps more well than ever before.

[RobP2]

Lol Andy, I see the No vote as cynical, the Yes for me was about opportunity

[Mr_Wood]

hmm a lot of angry yes people out there today. al sorts of absurd vote rigging claims being thrown about. On one hand it has strengthened bonds and the other weakened if not destroyed, A lot of negativity from YES camp.

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/ ... 1411124496

[Interloper]

I watched most of the live coverage online, which was hosted by NBC here. As they went region by region to hear the counts as they were finalized, some of the outcomes were not surprising. Dundee, being the pro-secession "capital" had an overwhelming "yes" while the more traditional, far-flung regions such as Orkney preferred to stay with the familiar. The closer votes were more interesting, though, and it was evident from watching the crowds in some of the regions that even the citizens didn't know which choice would prevail, even among their own neighbors.

Hopefully, the "No" outcome will result in UK granting Scotland more autonomy, while providing a steadier and more secure economic base that the Scots can fall back on rather than have to scrabble to build a new financial foundation. There's always the future: If they are not happy with how things go in the next 20 years, they can always bring the referendum back and have another go at complete independence, right?

[Strange]

congrats Andy

[Andy_S]

Strange:

RE: "Congrats"
My name is Andy Salmon, not David Cameron.

But as an Englishman, was very gratified to see this result. Why?

On the heart side - well. Nobody likes to be jilted and I do, emotionally, tend to consider Scotland to be part of "my" country, albeit my only Scottish blood is from grandparents. And off the top of my head, I can't think of a Jock I have met that I did not like. (Regretably, I cannot say the same about Englishmen.)

On the head side, I think this union has been a remarkable success in most every term - social, cultural, economic, political, etc. Long may it prosper. The fact that Scotland as a polity did not vote for the Tories is a very recent thing in terms of the history of the union: We have had labor governments, and we will have them again.

And as for international implications: IMHO, the fewer barriers and borders between peoples - the better. I live in South Korea, a nation I love, but one thing I cannot stand about this place is its hair-trigger, emotive nationalism, which is closely liniked to its historical victim mentality. Thank God the Scots voted not to walk down that path! Nationalism was the bane of the 20th century. Brown's speech about an inclusive Scotland was superb, and I don't believe any nationalist could argue with his vision.

BTW, I am a little bit surprised nobody in Scotland bought up the Singapore case as a historic precedent. (You are Singaporean, right?) Lee KW's split from Malaysia proved to be a brilliant move. There again, from what I have seen of it, modern history as not much refereed do. Most of the "history" cited during the referendum was medieval (literally) or mythic.

[Strange]

yes, I am.

and actually, we were told to fuck off
we (at least Lee Kuan Yew), at the time, did not want to be out of Malaya.
in fact, he cried on national tv when he had to announce the separation
"how the feck are we gonna make it? we dont even have water!"

Lee wanted a Malaya for Malaysians; the Tunku wanted a Malaya for Malays.
if you understand what i mean, you will understand the difference between the views are huge.

so they might be right not to bring up Singapore as an example. cheers

[Frank Bellemare]

IMHO, the fewer barriers and borders between peoples - the better.

Oh Andy... when I hear that I think "here is someone who has always been part of the ruling majority".

Since we're all better together and we should seek to abolish nations, try imagining the UK merging with France and Germany, with the seat of governement located in Paris and a majority of seats belonging to German and French members of Parliament. Economically and militarily, you would become a powerhouse. Yet something tells me you would soon be calling for independence yourself...

[Andy_S]

Frank:

Abolishing borders makes sense for virtually every reason, bar security. Abolishing nations is a truly humanistic ideal, but we won't see it in our lifetimes.

As for this idea of "merging with France and Germany" the UKIP and (before them) the BNP preached this message that this is what the EU is all about. It is very largely nonsense, though the Daily Mail has carved a niche peddling the politics of fear, suspicion and race to myopic nationalists and little Englanders.

Scotland has voted to remain in the union and I am pretty confident that the UK will quash this ridiculous idea about departing the EU that UKIP proposes.

[Andy_S]

Strange:

Sure, but regardless of the reason - the Tunku playing to the bumiputra gallery - it turned out very nicely for Singapore.

[yeniseri]

I was listening to the BBC and some quarters were saying that Westminister used the "hook, line and s(t)inker" bait Strategy of claiming if the Scots voted "No", they will see a better 'relationship' /more favourable dispensation from #10. Quien sabe? Same thing ah said???

[emptycloud]

part two.... The Rebellion...