BERGDAHL the real story

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BERGDAHL the real story

Postby KEND on Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:45 pm

The recent prisoner exchange with Al Qaeda has raised serious doubts about the administration's ability to understand the politics of modern foreign affairs. Was the President suckered into a photo opportunity ? Bergdahl apparently was known to have misgivings about being a soldier and in fact was deserting when he was captured by Al Qaeda. Did everyone but the President know this?
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Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby Steve James on Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:31 pm

Well, I thought I'd hear the real story; but, I guess only Bergdahl really knows it. Anyway, afa who knew he was deserting, six soldiers died trying to get him back; so, their cos thought that he was captured and/or wanted to come back. 2) There's a big difference between desertion and being AWOL. Any time a soldier is off his base without permission, he or she's AWOL. If he snuck out and got captured, he'd still be AWOL. I can't say I know the real reason he was off base. I'm just saying that the initial reaction was not that he was a deserter. However, suppose he was worse; suppose he was a traitor who was defecting to the Taliban. That wouldn't be impossible. Then, the question is why he wanted to come back. But, in any case, I'm sure you realize that both people in the military who are away without leave and traitors are hunted down. The thing here would be whether it was worth the trade "IF" he was a traitor, and not just a dummy who got caught off base. I don't know. If he were a defector/traitor, and there was a trade, that wouldn't be surprising at all. If he's an enemy combatant, it's the case that even Israel makes trades like this. Trades were made for the Munich bombers --of course, payback is a mf. If he's not, then it'd be a sin to just leave him. Traitors can be put on trial, found guilty, then put up against a wall and shot. Ya gotta get him first.

Of course, since everybody's so clear on his guilt, they would probably be the first to order a drone strike and take out him and his Talib buddies. Right?
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Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby chud on Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:35 pm

The big point that the media is missing in this story is that Obama violated the law (which he signed) by not notifying Congress 30 days in advance that he was going to be releasing prisoners from Guantanamo Bay.
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Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby KEND on Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:10 pm

Before I get corrected it was the Taliban, not AQ, I think of them as interchangeable
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Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby shawnsegler on Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:16 pm

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Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby Peacedog on Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:08 pm

It is increasingly looking like he deserted.

If that is the case, a court marshal followed by a sentence, which in this case could probably be waived due to the nature of his being held captive, is probably the best course of action.

If he actively aided the Taliban, a court marshal followed by a lengthy prison sentence is probably the right course of action. Sadly, we do not execute people for this kind of thing these days.
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Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby yeniseri on Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:34 pm

1. As a veteran, former Marine and served in Afghanistan (2010-2011), there are no conditions for 'Leave no US Soldier behind".
2. Reagan's guns for hostages or hostages for drugs is/was no better but that tells US how arbitrary their system of justice is! Let the truth be told.
3. One does not decide to save people because of the views they hold but if this become a pattern and my limited vision is demonstrating, we are in for some deep bullsh*t
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Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:24 pm

The guy's background was pretty interesting (pre-military). Seems like an intelligent guy who got disillusioned and then paid for it. It sucks that others were killed because of it, but I doubt that was intentional. I look forward to hearing what he has to say, but not to the vamp fest that is likely to come of it like it has with everything this administration has done.

The trade, to me, seems like a terrible idea. But, I am so tired of the irrational resistance to Obama (Gee, I wonder why other Dems didn't have to deal with this at the same level) that I am just about ready to give him a few here and there. Besides, Shawn already pointed out the precedent.
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Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby grzegorz on Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:54 am

Funny how the right is flipping out without knowing all the facts, reminds me of when they thought Zimmerman was a hero.

As a vet I'm offended by how this POW is being treated, including by those who served with him, his release was for his family probably even more than it was for him.

Had Obama missed this opportunity this would be another Benghazi. Had this been Bush or Reagan it would be considered great leadership.
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Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby grzegorz on Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:56 am

Ian Cipperly wrote:The guy's background was pretty interesting (pre-military). Seems like an intelligent guy who got disillusioned and then paid for it. It sucks that others were killed because of it, but I doubt that was intentional.


I heard on the news that according to the military they have no record of soldiers dying in a rescue operation for the POW.
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Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby shawnsegler on Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:00 am

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Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby allen2saint on Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:37 am

Disagree with POTUS all you want, but if you're walking around thinking you're more informed than he is about anything, I think you need to adjust your media consumption and take a look around. As much as I fundamentally disagreed with Bush, I never underestimated the man's intellect and his administration's basic competence to do their jobs. I think they f'ing knowingly lied about WMD, but to really think anyone in that office, surrounded by all that apparatus and a military that doesnt want to lose ever, is actually ill informed is preposterouly biased.
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Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby allen2saint on Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:38 am

grzegorz wrote:Funny how the right is flipping out without knowing all the facts, reminds me of when they thought Zimmerman was a hero.

As a vet I'm offended by how this POW is being treated, including by those who served with him, his release was for his family probably even more than it was for him.

Had Obama missed this opportunity this would be another Benghazi. Had this been Bush or Reagan it would be considered great leadership.


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Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby gzregorz on Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:50 am

The U.S. Military Has Committed To Gaining Release Of POWs

Military Code Of Conduct: U.S. Govt. "Will Use Any Practical Means To Contact, Support And Gain Release" Of POWs. A Department of Defense military code of conduct and ethics dating back to 1954 states that the U.S. government has an explicit obligation and responsibility to "stand by" POWs and that the government "will use every practical means to contact, support and gain release for you and for all other prisoners of war" (emphasis added):


As a member of the armed forces of the United States, you are protecting your nation. It is your duty to oppose all enemies of the United States in combat or, if a captive, in a prisoner of war compound. Your behavior is guided by the Code of Conduct, which has evolved from the heroic lives, experiences and deeds of Americans from the Revolutionary War to the Southeast Asian Conflict.

[...]

Just as you have a responsibility to your country under the Code of Conduct, the United States government has an equal responsibility -- to keep faith with you and stand by you as you fight for your country. If you are unfortunate enough to become a prisoner of war, you may rest assured that your government will care for your dependents and will never forget you. Furthermore, the government will use every practical means to contact, support and gain release for you and for all other prisoners of war. [American Civil Liberties Union, accessed 6/2/14]

U.S. National Security Adviser: "We Have A Sacred Obligation" To Bring Back POWs. On the June 1 edition of ABC's This Week, U.S. National Security Adviser Susan Rice pointed out that the U. S government has a "sacred obligation that we have upheld since the founding of our republic to do the must to bring back our men and women who are taken in battle." Rice argued that the government has a responsibility to "do our utmost to bring our prisoners-of-war home":


RICE: Sergeant Bergdahl wasn't simply a hostage; he was an American prisoner of war, captured on the battlefield. We have a sacred obligation that we have upheld since the founding of our republic to do the most to bring back our men and women who are taken in battle, and we did that in this instance. If for some reason we took a position now in the 21st century, when some of our adversaries may not be traditional state actors, that we would not do our utmost to bring our prisoners of war home, that would break faith with the American people and with the men and women in uniform, so regardless of who may be holding an American prisoner of war, we must do our best to bring him or her back. [ABC, This Week, 6/1/14]

Secretary Of Defense Chuck Hagel: Securing Release Was Necessary To Save Bergdahl's Life. On June 1, Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel argued that the administration had to act quickly in securing Bergdahl's release once an "opening" with the Taliban was found, citing concerns about Bergdahl's health:


Believing that his health was deteriorating, the United States acted quickly to save his life after years of work to free him from being a prisoner of war, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said Sunday.

"It was our judgment that if we could find an opening and move very quickly with that opening, that we needed to get him out of there essentially to save his life," Hagel said. "I know President Obama feels very strongly about that, I do as well." [CNN.com, 6/1/14]

http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/0 ... ign/199536
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Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby chud on Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:19 am

Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) doesn’t think that an apology from the White House goes far enough to assuage congressional concern about President Obama’s decision to ignore Congress in a deal with the Taliban to secure the release of Sgt. Bergdahl.

“I don’t know that an apology is enough for breaking the law,” Paul said. “I’m not sure I’m willing to accept an apology on that.”

White House officials have defended Obama’s decision, pointing out that “unique circumstances” gave him the authority to bypass the statue requiring the administration to give Congress a 30-day notice before releasing or transferring Guantanamo detainees.
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