BERGDAHL the real story

Rum, beer, women, movies, nice websites, gaming, etc., without interrupting the flow of martial threads.

Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby Peacedog on Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:27 am

The return to duty is a regular part of processing post-POW.

This is where it will get interesting.

Once the investigation into what happened while he was captive concludes, which could take awhile, I suspect one of two things will happen: (1) a quiet discharge in lieu of pressing charges, primarily for desertion; or (2) he will face a court martial for aiding and abetting the enemy while in "captivity".

Personally, I suspect number one will be the most likely thing to happen.

The likely story of what happened goes something like this....most of what I have seen lately leads me to believe that he developed some extremist anti-American views while deployed that led him to, very stupidly, desert. He got rolled up pretty quickly by the locals who traded him to the Taliban. After a few years of torture and ass-rape, the US negotiated his release. In short, he is a dumb ass, who unofficially paid for his desertion pretty severely.

While the administration in the US was looking for a PR win in getting him released, they quickly found out that he was an idiot. To avoid any more political fall out, the administration will offer him a good conduct discharge in exchange for keeping his mouth shut. I'm sure some lefty PAC will probably give him money on the side to aid with this.

Long moral of the story: don't desert in wartime. Especially don't do it amongst a bunch of Islamic radicals.
Peacedog
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1227
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 5:22 am
Location: Standing right next to your girl....

Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby Steve James on Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:43 am

I don't know the "real" story. But, fwiw ...
AWOL

AWOL, or "Absent without Leave," is usually called "Unauthorized Absence" (or UA) by the Navy and Marine Corps, and AWOL by the Army and Air Force. The use of "UA" by the Navy/Marine Corps and "AWOL" by the Army/Air Force is historical. Prior to enactment of the Uniform Code of Military Justice in 1951 the services were governed by separate laws. However, its official title under the current UCMJ is "AWOL" (a rose by any other name is still a rose). It simply means not being where you are supposed to be at the time you are supposed to be there. Being late for work is a violation of Article 86. Missing a medical appointment is a violation. So is disappearing for several days (or months, or years). The maximum possible punishments, which I'll discuss later in this article, depends on the exact circumstances of the absence.

Desertion

Did you know that desertion can result in the death penalty? It's true. The maximum punishment for desertion during "time of war" is death. However, since the Civil War, only one American servicemember has ever been executed for desertion -- Private Eddie Slovik in 1945.

The offense of desertion, under Article 85 carries a much greater punishment than the offense of AWOL, under Article 86. Many people believe that if one is absent without authority for 30 days or more, the offense changes from AWOL to desertion, but that's not quite true.

The primary difference between the two offenses is "intent to remain away permanently," or if the purpose of the absence is to shirk "important duty," (such as a combat deployment).

If one intends to return to "military control" someday, one is guilty of AWOL, not desertion, even if they were away for 50 years. Conversely, if a person was absent for just one minute, and then captured, he could be convicted of desertion, if the prosecution could prove that the member intended to remain away from the military permanently.

If the intent of the absence was to "shirk important duty," such as a combat deployment, then the "intent to remain away permanently" to support a charge of desertion is not necessary. However, Such services as drill, target practice, maneuvers, and practice marches are not ordinarily "important duty." "Important duty" may include such duty as hazardous duty, duty in a combat zone, certain ship deployments, etc. Whether a duty is hazardous or a service is important depends upon the circumstances of the particular case, and is a question of fact for the court-martial to decide.


So, if you know that he was trying to leave permanently, the punishment should be easy. I'd say that the fact that he had left base without permission before and returned suggests that he might not have been trying to desert. Or, for whatever reason, his previous actions were not considered to be desertion.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 16188
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby grzegorz on Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:12 pm

Sounds to me that he wandered off into town and got kidnapped.

Having been in the military myself, sounds typical of the crazy stories I'd hear everyday.

Had Obama not appeared in the Rose garden with the parents this would not have even been news.
Last edited by grzegorz on Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Fascists rejected reason in the name of will, denying objective truth in favor of a glorious myth articulated by leaders who claimed to give voice to the people."

-Timothy Snyder
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 4876
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: Divided States of America

Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby chud on Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:38 pm

Peacedog wrote:The return to duty is a regular part of processing post-POW.

This is where it will get interesting.

Once the investigation into what happened while he was captive concludes, which could take awhile, I suspect one of two things will happen: (1) a quiet discharge in lieu of pressing charges, primarily for desertion; or (2) he will face a court martial for aiding and abetting the enemy while in "captivity".

Personally, I suspect number one will be the most likely thing to happen.

The likely story of what happened goes something like this....most of what I have seen lately leads me to believe that he developed some extremist anti-American views while deployed that led him to, very stupidly, desert. He got rolled up pretty quickly by the locals who traded him to the Taliban. After a few years of torture and ass-rape, the US negotiated his release. In short, he is a dumb ass, who unofficially paid for his desertion pretty severely.

While the administration in the US was looking for a PR win in getting him released, they quickly found out that he was an idiot. To avoid any more political fall out, the administration will offer him a good conduct discharge in exchange for keeping his mouth shut. I'm sure some lefty PAC will probably give him money on the side to aid with this.

Long moral of the story: don't desert in wartime. Especially don't do it amongst a bunch of Islamic radicals.



Interesting take PeaceDog, thanks for posting.
I have no strong opinion for or against Bergdahl.
I believe that we should try to get all of our soldiers back home that we can.
So I don't disagree with WHAT Obama did, I just disagree with HOW he did it, as I stated on the first page of the thread.

Anyway, thanks again for your post.
User avatar
chud
Great Old One
 
Posts: 3535
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 7:42 am
Location: Alamo City, Lone Star State

Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby Michael on Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:14 pm

As usual, most stories that get so much attention are prominent because of their political value, completely out of proportion with their real significance to the people directly involved. Bergdahl is not of any great consequence to anyone outside his immediate circle.

For people not familiar with how things play out for soldiers who begin to question the validity of their orders, conscientious objectors, etc, during US wars of aggression, I suggest the documentary film "Sir, No Sir!" (2005). Lots of AWOL and desertion discussed there in the political context of the Vietnam War. May or may not be directly relevant to Bergdahl's motives.

I served two years in the USMC, never saw armed combat, did about one year of "clipboard combat" and I did have many private meetings with E-8, E-9, as well as O-4, O-5, O-6 and one with O-7 (Commanding General of Kaneohe Bay MCAS, 1st MEB). Once you express dissatisfaction, they do everything possible to pressure you into going AWOL so you can be jailed. I can tell you that none of them I met knew the difference between AWOL and Desertion or had ever read a single page of the UCMJ, JAG manual, Navy Regs, MCO, Air Station Orders, etc.

Dr. Strangelove is completely accurate. Most of those guys are fruitcakes. Seriously. One part half-whacked, the other half-baked. Just picture the marvelous Patton ordering tanks against the Bonus Army in D.C.
User avatar
Michael
Great Old One
 
Posts: 11502
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 7:05 pm
Location: Guangzhou, China

Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby yeniseri on Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:45 pm

Most people do not know the real story (myself included) but based on the objective facts as reported, he will not get as severe a punishment as we may be led to believe or what we hear on FOX Entertainment Network. Just by looking up his unit, there were some real problems starting from the top and this never should excuse his leaving his post. Additionally, men fron his unit were document in a video presentation by a news organization and his mates expressed the same 'forked up" ;D attitude as Bergdahl. As I stated, any positive information given to S-2 and similar, will allow for a better completion of service and even allow for supervised observation by his superiors.

At my first Air WIng unit for the first few years I was a Legal Admin and I prepared the proceedings/writeup per Group JAG and or NIS investigations per UCMJ so I have a "limited" insight. It is obvious that to be found guilty, one has to be found as such in a court of legal proceeding as opposed to the ignorance of the rabble spouting BS! As I repeat, All soldiers are brought home regardless of their political affiliation or inclination.
Last edited by yeniseri on Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When fascism comes to US America, It will be wrapped in the US flag and waving a cross. An astute patriot
yeniseri
Wuji
 
Posts: 3081
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:49 pm
Location: USA

Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby Michael on Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:19 am

The only book I couldn't get my own copy of was the JAG manual, so I borrowed the Legal Admin's for my unit on a Friday late afternoon. By Monday morning, the first time he'd been in the office since I'd had the book, he was screaming at me on the phone why I'd tried to steal it. Pretty sure he never read it either, lol. I'd already photocopied the page I needed, so the damage was done and the only reading-comprehension-enabled Marine on a base of 16,000 jarheads had what he needed to beat the rap. ;D

The Marines have the lowest minimum for ASVAB scores, and in retrospect, they should really set a maximum the way police forces reject guys if their IQ is too high. Woulda' saved me a lotta trouble, haha. :D
User avatar
Michael
Great Old One
 
Posts: 11502
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 7:05 pm
Location: Guangzhou, China

Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby grzegorz on Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:55 pm

Michael wrote:As usual, most stories that get so much attention are prominent because of their political value, completely out of proportion with their real significance to the people directly involved. Bergdahl is not of any great consequence to anyone outside his immediate circle.

For people not familiar with how things play out for soldiers who begin to question the validity of their orders, conscientious objectors, etc, during US wars of aggression, I suggest the documentary film "Sir, No Sir!" (2005). Lots of AWOL and desertion discussed there in the political context of the Vietnam War. May or may not be directly relevant to Bergdahl's motives.

I served two years in the USMC, never saw armed combat, did about one year of "clipboard combat" and I did have many private meetings with E-8, E-9, as well as O-4, O-5, O-6 and one with O-7 (Commanding General of Kaneohe Bay MCAS, 1st MEB). Once you express dissatisfaction, they do everything possible to pressure you into going AWOL so you can be jailed. I can tell you that none of them I met knew the difference between AWOL and Desertion or had ever read a single page of the UCMJ, JAG manual, Navy Regs, MCO, Air Station Orders, etc.

Dr. Strangelove is completely accurate. Most of those guys are fruitcakes. Seriously. One part half-whacked, the other half-baked. Just picture the marvelous Patton ordering tanks against the Bonus Army in D.C.



I completely agree.
"Fascists rejected reason in the name of will, denying objective truth in favor of a glorious myth articulated by leaders who claimed to give voice to the people."

-Timothy Snyder
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 4876
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: Divided States of America

Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby grzegorz on Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:24 pm

It turns out that the Army knew Bergdahl had issues from a psych eval they gave to him yet they still sent him into combat.
Last edited by grzegorz on Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Fascists rejected reason in the name of will, denying objective truth in favor of a glorious myth articulated by leaders who claimed to give voice to the people."

-Timothy Snyder
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 4876
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: Divided States of America

Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby chud on Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:41 am

Local news here is covering the proceedings, and I'm hearing a lot of things:
- Before he ever joined the Army, Bergdahl tried joining the Coast Guard but he lasted less than a month.
- Bergdahl's unit was going to be shipped out of that area within the next day or two, so it seems strange that Bergdahl would desert at that time.
- His unit spent the next 45 days or so looking for him, and morale started to fall due to the extreme weather conditions in the area: triple digit temps during the day and freezing at night.
- Supplies such as underwear and other clothing had to be dropped in to his unit because everyone's clothes were rotting off their bodies. The guys in his unit became very bitter and upset about Bergdahl's desertion and the extreme conditions they were suffering.
- Bergdahl apparently had no clue that his unit suffered so much due to his desertion, and feels badly about it now.
- I'm not sure if Bergdahl is extremely naive, or mentally ill. Strange case either way.
User avatar
chud
Great Old One
 
Posts: 3535
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 7:42 am
Location: Alamo City, Lone Star State

Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby grzegorz on Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:50 am

The fact that the Army signed off on him makes me think that it was at a time when they had difficulty recruiting. I'm sure the Army will have answer a few questions themselves.

We had a guy like this in the Navy. He was kicked out for getting high and showing up to the helo pad thinking he was getting on a chopper to fly somewhere to play drums for Queensryche. Needless to say he was kicked out and a couple of months later an air force recruiter was calling us for his discharge papers so dude could join the Air Force. I don't think we ever gave them those papers.
Last edited by grzegorz on Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:00 pm, edited 5 times in total.
"Fascists rejected reason in the name of will, denying objective truth in favor of a glorious myth articulated by leaders who claimed to give voice to the people."

-Timothy Snyder
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 4876
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: Divided States of America

Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby grzegorz on Sun Sep 20, 2015 1:30 am

- Bergdahl's unit was going to be shipped out of that area within the next day or two, so it seems strange that Bergdahl would desert at that time.


Thanks, I wasn't aware of that.
"Fascists rejected reason in the name of will, denying objective truth in favor of a glorious myth articulated by leaders who claimed to give voice to the people."

-Timothy Snyder
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 4876
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: Divided States of America

Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby grzegorz on Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:02 am

Army judge considering dismissing case against Bowe Bergdahl after 'Trump made it impossible to have fair trial'

https://www.yahoo.com/news/army-judge-c ... 00967.html
"Fascists rejected reason in the name of will, denying objective truth in favor of a glorious myth articulated by leaders who claimed to give voice to the people."

-Timothy Snyder
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 4876
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: Divided States of America

Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby grzegorz on Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:44 am

No prison time.

Told you so...
"Fascists rejected reason in the name of will, denying objective truth in favor of a glorious myth articulated by leaders who claimed to give voice to the people."

-Timothy Snyder
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 4876
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: Divided States of America

Re: BERGDAHL the real story

Postby Peacedog on Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:14 pm

The story isn't quite over yet.

His sentence has to be approved at the 4 star level before it goes final.

If the judge was found to have acted inappropriately then it will be changed. I don't remember if this goes to a new trial or not. It has been awhile since I've had anything to do with military law. That said, it is fairly rare for that to happen, but then again the whole situation is pretty uncommon. So who knows.

That said, it could be the judge found the way he did as a result of Berghdahl's experience during captivity. It could very well have been much worse than anyone is letting on. And those details will probably never be publically known.

Also, it has been suggested that Bergdahl provided a variety of important information during his debriefing and that may have contributed to a modification of his sentencing terms. And if true, those details will most certainly never be known.

The bottom line is that Bergdahl is now a dishonorably discharged vet and will be quickly forgotten to history.
Peacedog
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1227
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 5:22 am
Location: Standing right next to your girl....

PreviousNext

Return to Off the Topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Strange and 1 guest