The Islamic State

[windwalker]

A graphic video obtained by NBC News purportedly shows James Wright Foley reciting threats against America before he is executed by an ISIS militant.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/james ... is-n184376

some how the press seems to think they are outside of the events they report.

[Interloper]

ISIS murders 80 men, abducts and enslaves 100 women.
http://news.msn.com/videos?videoid=6aec ... 06#tscptmf

[chud]

General: 'Destroy the Islamic State Now': http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/general-destroy-islamic-state-now_803547.html

[chud]

Islamic State beheads British hostage: click

Apparently Alan Henning had gone over there to help deliver aid to people of all faiths.

[chud]

Bill Maher vs Ben Affleck on Islam: click

[zenshiite]

Maher is objectively wrong in his assessment of Islam. Especially in light of not only average everyday Muslims denouncing ISIS, but many many Muslim clerics writing open letters declaring them un-Islamic.

[chud]

Maher is objectively wrong in his assessment of Islam. Especially in light of not only average everyday Muslims denouncing ISIS, but many many Muslim clerics writing open letters declaring them un-Islamic.

Ok, thanks for your response.
Two sincere questions:

1.) Could you please mention some Muslim clerics or Muslim groups that openly denounce ISIS and/or violent Jihad? I hadn't heard of any, but it would be good to find out about some.

2.) From what I have read, Islam proposes that leaving the religion is a crime, and many clerics believe it is punishable by death. Is that incorrect?

[edededed]

Some sources claim that the Quran says to kill those of other religions, allows marriages with barely pubescent girls, and promotes martyrdom (by which men can go to a heaven of 72 everlasting virgins for continued sex). Now, I've not read the Quran, so I don't know - is this true?

In Christianity, the Old Testament certainly condones some barbaric practices, like stoning adulterers to death, and also some strange ideas, like disallowing sex with prostitutes, except when they are foreign. After all, the book was written in ancient times. However, Christians sort of consider the Old Testament as "old," and surpassed by the New Testament, which is a lot more merciful to everyone.

In Judaism, the Torah is essentially the Old Testament of Christianity, and thus certainly an ancient book, with many rules for execution depending on the crime, for example (stoning, beheading, strangulation, etc.). However, Rabbis seem to insist that these are meant to dissuade people from the crimes, and not really carried out - not sure if this is a modern idea or not (a way to make it so that one can still follow an ancient book in modern times), or if it was that way from the beginning.

So, anyway, the words of a holy book can be dangerous, and even more so if they are taken literally.

[leifeng]

2.) From what I have read, Islam proposes that leaving the religion is a crime, and many clerics believe it is punishable by death. Is that incorrect?

I asked him this question on page 5 with the Shiite conditions and he said he didn't know Islam well enough to answer. I don't think he is qualified to have opinions about his religion. I guess as a moderate Muslim he just follows a certain part and turns a blind eye on the rest. The problem is that not all Muslims want to turn a blind eye on their religion and some want to follow it to the fullest extent. After all there isn't a fixed manual for all Muslims to explain which parts of Islam they should ignore in 21st century.

[Steve James]

The problem is that not all Muslims want to turn a blind eye on their religion and some want to follow it to the fullest extent. After all there isn't a fixed manual for all Muslims to describe which parts of Islam they should ignore in 21st century.

Perhaps an equally interesting question for non-Muslims to answer is why people raised in Christian or non-religious families/communities convert to Islam.

[leifeng]

Perhaps an equally interesting question for non-Muslims to answer is why people raised in Christian or non-religious families/communities convert to Islam.

You should ask them but in my experience none of these people really "knows" these religions. They are mostly after an illusion of being right and too scared to admit that they don't really know what's going on in this universe. Maybe for them the Christian club is out of booze or the booze doesn't make them high enough. There are of course many other reasons.

As for your picture I don't see the first group roaming the world and terrorizing people right and left or who knows maybe they are smart enough to cover up their track by spreading democracy or something.

[Steve James]

As for your picture I don't see the first group roaming the world and terrorizing people right and left or who knows maybe they are smart enough to cover up their track by spreading democracy or something.

By the first group do you mean Christians or KKKers? But, the KKKers are alive and "well" here, not in the ME. The point was that no one here (except them, of course) claims that they represent Christians. KKKers are the traditional and by far most significant terror organizations in the US. They can consider themselves Christians (and they're not the only groups who do) if they like. Talk is cheap.

Right, they might also be under the delusion about what their religion (or religious texts) promotes. In which case, they should be considered anomalies, not representatives. I have to think that way about the KKK. And it doesn't matter whether they're truly following their religion or not. I'm concerned about what the individuals do. I can't change what they believe.

The alternative is to condemn Christians for indiscriminate bombing, but few think that a Christian solution.

[Steve James]

Btw, suppose it's absolutely true that the Koran tells all Muslims to kill anyone who will not convert or anyone who converts away. Now, let's say that there are Muslims (such as those on this board, afaik) who'd argue that the Koran does not advance that position and, even if it did, they have not and would not follow that command. Should those people be condemned for not following their religion? Or, are they actually following their religion? If religions ever produce good people, those people will do good things.

[leifeng]

By the first group do you mean Christians or KKKers?

Any hate sect in the Christian world.
How many suicide bombings have been committed directly in their names last week? Maybe a quick comparison can make it clear why hate groups in the Christian world can't beat the Muslim ones in making headlines. So of course they fail to represent anything serious but the Muslim side is a different story.

[Steve James]

How many suicide bombings have been committed directly in their names last week?

Christians (and KKKers) don't do suicide bombings. But, how many Muslims have done suicide bombings compared to the number of ordinary Christian bombings happened last night?

Besides, obviously, the first thing that should come to mind is the number of Muslims killing other Muslims last week. Maybe they're killing each other, and are fighting each other because of their religion? Why aren't the Turks fighting ISIL? In terms of a body count, it's not a Muslim v. rest of world conflict. It's far more complicated than "Islam teaches" ....

Hey, I think that people use religion to justify whatever they want. If your argument is that all Muslims should be condemned because of what some of them do, ok, just do the same for Christians, Jews, atheists, Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, Hindus and it's all good. Not that it would or could lead to any fruitful discussion or solution to any particular problem.