The Islamic State

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Re: The Islamic State

Postby jimmy on Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:20 pm

law ren c e wrote:
grzegorz wrote:
wiesiek wrote:Do somebody has the idea
WHY we tolerate this ISIS thing?
there should be only big hole in the mother earth left, alredy.


I feel the same way. I suppose if Syria had oil things would be different.

Interesting to see Kurdish women are rising to the ocassion. Not really focussed on ISIS but interesting to see the role women are playing.



http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uqI0a4VgEs8


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Re: The Islamic State

Postby grzegorz on Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:15 pm

The Russians are coming.
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Re: The Islamic State

Postby wiesiek on Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:51 pm

no good,
they openly take the side,
I would consider tactical nuclear hit on ISIS territory, O:) -devil-
2nd option - railguns them from the orbit
or the 3th - inducting big earthquake in the region and change size of the Mediterranean and Red Seas...
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Re: The Islamic State

Postby grzegorz on Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:18 am

As the news confirms that IS may be responsible for the Russian plane disaster it occurs to me that this is probably going to be the norm in the future with small groups of people resorting to attacking innocent people on the world stage to get their message across.
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Re: The Islamic State

Postby Michael on Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:52 am

grzegorz wrote:As the news confirms that IS may be responsible for the Russian plane disaster it occurs to me that this is probably going to be the norm in the future with small groups of people resorting to attacking innocent people on the world stage to get their message across.

I wonder how many manpads they've gotten from the Iraqi security forces we trained?
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Re: The Islamic State

Postby grzegorz on Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:06 pm

It wasn't a manpad it was a bomb.

From what I've seen the weapon of choice among "terrorists" seems to be the AK. I wonder where those came from...
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Re: The Islamic State

Postby Michael on Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:11 pm

grzegorz wrote:It wasn't a manpad it was a bomb.

From what I've seen the weapon of choice among "terrorists" seems to be the AK. I wonder where those came from...

If the airplane was destroyed purposefully by a bomb or manpad, let's say a bomb, it still raises this awful scenario of what happens when countries with advanced militaries provide advanced weapons to terrorists, as was done by the USA's covert support of the mujahideen in Afghanistan by giving them stinger missiles to shoot down Soviet helicopters and planes. It's like Prometheus, you can't take the fire back from the man, or the manpad back from the terrorists.

For example, the USA is supplying armed rebels in Syria with TOW missiles and those fighters shift around. Even if it's legal for us to provide these weapons and fight in Syria (it's not), are these TOW's only ever going to be used on Syrian army tanks? Or will they be used on NATO tanks in Ukraine? Or on Russian tanks in the Caucuses?

The USA destroyed the government of Iraq, demolished its infrastructure over a period of more than 20 years of bombing that killed over a million Iraqi's and displaced a few million more, and then we dismissed its army. We replaced and re-supplied an incompetent army and ISIS took lots of their weapons. Did ISIS get manpads from the Iraqi's, whom we trained and equipped and whom the Saudi's probably bribed (just as we had previously done during our attacks on Iraq) so the Iraqi security forces would run away from ISIS and let them have the weapons, territory, etc.?

Is USA foreign policy so stupid that it cannot foresee and deal with these problems, or does the past show a pattern of preference for continual destabilization?
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Re: The Islamic State

Postby Steve James on Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:25 pm

A bomb on an aircraft is a low-tech attack. It takes very little technical knowledge, only the opportunity to place the device on the plane. Even if the US "supplies" TOW missiles --and, fwiw, there are very few weapons systems that China doesn't copy --and what people call AK-47s aren't even made in Russia.

U.S. arms sales have nothing to do with the downing of the Russia flight. And, if the Russians haven't developed anti-TOW technology before, they will now. There are those who argue that Russia is using Syria as an opportunity to test and develop weapons systems.
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Re: The Islamic State

Postby Michael on Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:19 pm

Steve James wrote:There are those who argue that Russia is using Syria as an opportunity to test and develop weapons systems.

That's pretty much always going on, and the more your economy is based on the military the more it happens. We let the Israeli's be the first to use depleted uranium munitions. I don't think weapons testing is even partly Russia's motive for being in Syria, but I'm sure they know this is an opportunity to recalibrate NATO's battle plans to be more respectful of the Russian capability.

Putin said their military is there to stop ISIS because they are a threat to Russia, for example because there are estimated to be a few thousand Russian citizens who have joined ISIS and they could be a problem returning home. And the Syrian army and the current government of Assad are the only way to stop ISIS, so supporting them makes sense. This is the stated purpose and it seems to be consistent with what the Russians are doing militarily as well as diplomatically regarding the 9 point agreement from Vienna Oct. 30 about bringing peace to Syria.

Unfortunately, the USA/NATO have no such consistent policy, as evidenced by their failure to do much at all to stop ISIS in Syria or Iraq, their spending $500mln USD to produce 5 "moderate rebel" fighters, and other failures, and it seems that the Obama admin was ambivalent with its amazing 60 country coalition about whether they wanted more to destroy Assad, or to slow down ISIS from time to time and herd them in various directions.

Finally, it seems that Obama's appointment of a special envoy to in April to Moscow and the eventual resignation of Gen. Allen as the USA rep. to the 60 nation coalition has signaled a change. This article suggests that the USA and Russia have been proceeding with a diplomatic solution in the background and Assad has accepted during his visit to Moscow, all the while Obama continued with anti-Assad rhetoric, perhaps to please the chicken hawks. I hope that's what he was doing.
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Re: The Islamic State

Postby Michael on Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:55 am

Michael

 

Re: The Islamic State

Postby grzegorz on Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:41 pm

Looks interesting, I'll check it out. But one thing I do take issue with is the idea that the Americans are at fault for leaving. The U.S. is not an occupying force and the Iraqis wanted the U.S. to leave if so the U.S. much like the Philippines and other countries the military pulled out. Therefore I don't believe you can blame the U.S. for the divisions between Sunnis and Shia but yes they U.S. can and should be blamed for the invasion which NATO was not involved in by the way as Canadians will remind us of. But it wasn't the U.S. gunning down Sunni protesters in which is ultimately why the Sunni turned to extremist groups like ISIS for their own protection from a repressive Iraqi government. I dislike ISIS as much as the next guy but if I were a poor Sunni in Iraq I would be all IS who had family killed or imprisoned by Shia. Besides it's a cool tattoo.
Last edited by grzegorz on Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Islamic State

Postby grzegorz on Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:53 pm

I'm referring to this video.

Watch "This is why the US created ISIS" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/RPkPGBodJM4

In which had the US stayed in Iraq these same voices would be criticizing the U.S. Yes, the same people who criticized the U.S. for going into Iraq are now criticizing the U.S. for leaving Iraq.

The journalist makes a big leap on the U.S. creating IS. Did the invasion lead to the conditions which led to IS? Yes, it did. But creating IS? I doubt W and his cronies even knew that there was a difference between Sunni and Shia but his father sure did.

Just my two cents perhaps in the future more evidence will come to light.
Last edited by grzegorz on Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Islamic State

Postby grzegorz on Sun Nov 08, 2015 6:01 pm

I tried watching the RT video but it was too much like FOX where it seemed more like a witch hunt than actual facts. They skip over a large chunk of what happened when the U.S. left. I found this video, which gives Miiddle eastern perspective, much more useful is giving us the bigger picture.



http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BJPOtPl-0NI

I appreciate the RT video. Thanks for sharing it I know people who watch RT and repeat everything presented on there and they're entitled to their opinion too it's just not my bag.
Last edited by grzegorz on Sun Nov 08, 2015 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Islamic State

Postby Michael on Sun Nov 08, 2015 8:43 pm

grzegorz wrote:I appreciate the RT video. Thanks for sharing it I know people who watch RT and repeat everything presented on there and they're entitled to their opinion too it's just not my bag.

That's cool. I'll check out the two videos you posted.
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Re: The Islamic State

Postby grzegorz on Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:14 pm

The first was just a short news story blaming the U.S. which again is fair enough but the second goes into much more detail as to how ISIS took on Nusra Front and broke away from Al Caeda (?) through the moves of Al Baghdadi (?). I definitely took some new knowledge from the second video by Caspian sea, I hope to watch the whole series if I can find the time.
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