Contradictions a-plenty

[Bill]

Do Catholics actually do anything different on the Sabbath? Is there a day of rest at all?

Yes, Sunday has always been a day of rest.

VATICAN CITY, SEPT. 26, 2010 (Zenit.org).- Here is a translation of part of the letter Benedict XVI sent to the president of the Pontifical Council for the Family regarding the 7th World Meeting of Families

Work and celebration are intimately connected in the life of families: they condition choices, influence relations between married couples and between parents and children, affect the relation of families with society and with the Church. Holy Scripture (cf. Genesis 1-2) tells us that the family, work and the feast day are gifts and blessings of God to help us to live a fully human existence. Daily experience attests that the authentic development of the person includes the individual, familial, and communal dimension, activities and functional relationships, as well as openness to hope and to the Good without limits.

In our days, unfortunately, the organization of labor, conceived and realized in function of market competition and maximizing profit, and the concept of feast as an occasion for escape and consumption, contribute to the break-up of the family and the community and to the spreading of an individualistic lifestyle. Thus, it is necessary to promote reflection and efforts at reconciling the demands and the periods of work with those of the family and to recover the true meaning of the feast, especially on Sunday, the weekly Easter, the day of the Lord and the day of man, the day of the family, of the community and of solidarity.

[Steve James]

But, it's not a sabbath. I was really asking about the Commandment to keep it, specifically.

[klonk]

I hear you Klonk,
but, really, this Catholic measure stick is getting very stinky outfit here in Poland ,
I know,- don`t look that finger is dirty if pointing the sun,
however this sun became a black hole .
even the brightest and best idea can be turn into the shit by bunch of spermminded old donkeys.

I know. My own tradition, the Anglican Communion, has lately been doing lunatic things in some places.

Still, I would not worry about it. Jesus has never lied to any Polish man. (Priests are another matter.)

Christianity tends to go insane every 500 years, and it is that time once again.

[Doc Stier]

In the Eastern Christian Church, i.e. Eastern Orthodox or Greek Orthodox and others, Saturday has always remained the Sabbath, from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday. Sunday is considered the Lord's Day, in commemoration of the Day of Resurrection, but it never replaced Saturday as the Sabbath Day.

[klonk]

Orthodox, Catholic and the general run of Protestants simply say that Saturday is the Jewish Sabbath, right enough, but by long tradition we gather to celebrate on the Lord's Day, the weekly anniversary of Christ's resurrection.

Some Protestant sects, starting with the Puritans, I think, have tried to combine or equate the idea of Lord's Day worship (Sunday) with that of sabbatarian observance.

Some others (Adventist in the main) hold out for the letter of the law and hold Saturday services.

I think either is needless legalism, since the (Gentile) Christian's responsibility toward distinctly Jewish law is to honor its moral and spiritual principles. The part about honest weights and measures, for example, becomes generalized into no deceitfulness in business, broadly construed. The Law doesn't say specifically not to roll back odometers or back date insurance policies but you kinda know that is what it means.

Colossians 2:16-17

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

[Steve James]

Hmm, well, the question was about observing a sabbath and the commandment. I understand Doc's point, and I've grown up around Adventists and Witnesses who actually separate the "Sabbath" from other days. Hey, it's not really unusual. There are plenty of Jews (Jonathan will tell ya) who treat Saturday like every other day. What interests me is that there is a specific Commandment about it, yet people use scripture to argue that it is unnecessary to follow it. I know (the Biblical) reason why Christians celebrate Sunday (the day after the Sabbath). I was unclear about what if anything Catholics did on the Sabbath.

I think the fact that people can determine that this or that is a legalism or unnecessary rule that applies only to some people is why some people mistrust the Biblical interpretations of others.

Colossians 2:16-17
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Interesting quote: Interpreting it, does it mean Christians should not be concerned with how others judge their celebrations? or does it suggest that people should not be judged for their religion or the way the celebrate it?

[klonk]

Any reading you give it indicates that Jewish sabbatarian practice is not the model for Christian observance.

[Steve James]

I thought we were talking about textural contradictions. Clearly, some Christians observe the Sabbath. Some don't... just like any other Commandment, such as honoring thy mother and father, bearing false witness, coveting, etc.

[klonk]

The moral and spiritual dimensions of the commandment (the part Christians really care about) are met if you take time to remember God and don't exhaust yourself in worldly pursuits, but rest a bit and reflect on God and his goodness. That's sort of what Benedict is driving at in the letter Bill reproduced above.

Remember that violating the Sabbath is one of the things Christ's enemies accused him of doing.

[Pipefighter,PhD]

If you take the bible in the context of a fictional work or if you think it was somthing a religious inventor wrote up as a manual to be followed like a Taoist "manual" or somthing like a middle way manual, you maybe can find contradictions. Sadly, a number of Christians view the bible as that kind of a manual. And since it makes very little sense to most of them except in small part, they turn to "christian manuals" that are intended to be such, which break down little tiny bits of scripture and add personal doctrine in a way that the average guy can just go and apply directly. Go to any christian book store and you will find about 100 of these manuals.

The bible is a record of a few different nations and people groups documenting what happened, including instructions from God before, during, and after the events, and the result of those events. A big section in the middle is the recorded prophecies of a number of guys. That's really important to keep record of when those events then happened, and there are still remaining parts that have yet to happen.

A few quotes from the bible about the bible:
1 Corinthians 4:1 One should think about us this way—as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.
Acts 8:30-31 So Philip ran up to it and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. He asked him, “Do you understand what you’re reading?” The man replied, “How in the world can I, unless someone guides me?” So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

The point of the bible is not to be sacred. And God didn't make man for the sabbath. The whole point is about God and what he has been doing for us all since the beginning and even at this moment. And what we can be doing to find the Good life.
Christians should be doing a much better job of illustrating the value of God in Life so the argument over the txt of the bible would be a moot point anyway. But if the method of teaching/indoctrination that has been passed down by mouth has no value left in it, how does a christian find that path he has never known unless God shows him, or raises another prophet for these days to lead the hearts of the children...

I hear you Klonk,
but, really, this Catholic measure stick is getting very stinky outfit here in Poland ,
I know,- don`t look that finger is dirty if pointing the sun,
however this sun became a black hole .
even the brightest and best idea can be turn into the shit by bunch of spermminded old donkeys.

It's not just the Catholics blocking out the sun. The truth is being so obscured by all christendom that the very words of life themselves have taken on such a meaning to almost everyone that hearing them does no good. This is exactly what happened to The Law when Jesus came. The law didnt go bad, but it had become so abused that in the eyes and ears of the people it had no good to offer them anymore. Only oppression. But it was made to prevent oppression and foster healthy community. We should give head to that nowadays.
Romans 11:20-22 Granted! They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but fear! For if God did not spare the natural branches, perhaps he will not spare you. Notice therefore the kindness and harshness of God—harshness toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness toward you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

Why is this in an IMA forum??????

[Steve James]

I find it difficult to speak for Christians, which is why I asked the question. I'm not sure if all of them have the same reasons for remembering the Sabbath; and, I couldn't say that all of them do. I asked what exactly they did, if they did observe it.

[Steve James]

Why is this in an IMA forum??????

Because it's the off topic section.

[Pipefighter,PhD]

I find it difficult to speak for Christians, which is why I asked the question. I'm not sure if all of them have the same reasons for remembering the Sabbath; and, I couldn't say that all of them do. I asked what exactly they did, if they did observe it.

Sorry, i missed your question. I was responding more to the original post and the overarching concept.

[wiesiek]

..."Jesus has never lied to any Polish man..."
agreed!
however in his name not only Slavic tribes traditions has been killed...

He lied or not, to the desert tribe,
it could stay that way if you ask me,
but
Roman Empire was in the urge to find some glue to make it going .The One King not from our word made it/ no energizers in this time/

to be clear - I have nothing against the Jesus or his fu!

[wiesiek]

you know, Pipefighter
Once upon the time God was the men,
so
when I get close nuf to get his as kicked...