Good Riddance to Zen Fraud

[Bill]

Joshu Sasaki Roshi, who brought Zen Buddhism to U.S., dies at 107



“He was a Zen master,” Krieger said. “I don’t know anybody else who lives that completely and that fully. When you meet somebody like that, it changes your opinion of what a human being is.”

He opened dozens of Zen centers, including one on Mt. Baldy known for its rigorous training regimen.

Decades later, allegations from dozens of former students that he had sexually abused them surfaced. The allegations included molestation and rape, and some had been reported to the Rinzai-ji board, which never took effective action, according to an investigation by an independent council of Buddhist leaders.

The council's report suggested he may have abused hundreds. "We see how, knowingly and unknowingly, the community was drawn into an open secret," the council wrote. "We have reports that those who chose to speak out were silenced, exiled, ridiculed, or otherwise punished.”

I feel sorry for everyone he fooled. I have spent some time at his Mount Baldy Camp back in the 80's.

see... http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-zen-buddhist-teacher-joshu-sasaki-roshi-107-20140728-story.html

[Bill]

Now I've learned that he was convicted of financial fraud involving the Zuiganji Temple in Japan that earned him an 8 month sentence when he was 47.

see... http://www.zuiganji-affair.com/

[edededed]

I've always been a bit tepid towards Japanese Buddhism, which I feel has changed the most from its origin (as expected as it is also the most physically remote from India). For better or for worse, Japanese Buddhists eat meat, drink liquor, and sire children, who tend to become the next generation of temple-owning monks - because it is usually a family affair. In Japan, Buddhism is mostly a funerary occupation, involving embalming, rites, and cremation. That said, of course people are people, and some monks I've met are very sincere and intelligent, but I've met some who became disillusioned with monk-hood and left as well.

I also take issue to the way that they meditate in Japanese Buddhism - because some old guy typically carries a bit stick around, and smacks people who are meditating. How are you supposed to get into the correct mental state if you are continuously jolted out of it? (When I meditate, it is a jolt to even be touched by anyone sometimes - but the shock of being smacked by a big stick is probably many times worse.)

[allen2saint]

I think not living up to one's religious ideals is something most people and religious groups share. I know Japan has a "musical religions" reputation, but I've met some incredibly devout and sincere Japanese Buddhists. I do think Zen is a little extreme, but its just a version of Chan with a little of that Japanese je ne se quoi about it.

[Michael]

/ sarcasm = ON

Wow, I am so surprised to hear that a formally trained Buddhist just turned out to be an abusive criminal spreading chaos in society, one victim at a time.

/ sarcasm = OFF

[Michael]

I also take issue to the way that they meditate in Japanese Buddhism - because some old guy typically carries a bit stick around, and smacks people who are meditating. How are you supposed to get into the correct mental state if you are continuously jolted out of it? (When I meditate, it is a jolt to even be touched by anyone sometimes - but the shock of being smacked by a big stick is probably many times worse.)

This is mental training to accept abuse.

[edededed]

Yeah - the only thing the stick-striking achieves, I think, is people who are sort of on their toes (with their eyes closed), waiting for the jolt that certainly will come. (This is counter-productive to attaining what Chinese call 入靜 in qigong). Just one example of how far things can change when they are far removed from the original sources.

Some more tidbits about Buddhism in Japan:
- At least some years ago, there was a dating website catering to monks (traditionally, they married and had sons, one of which would be the next generation's monk and owner of the temple; but nowadays, young lasses are not very interested in dating monks)
- Many monks do not shave their heads (requirements seem to differ by sect)
- Most Buddhists in Japan do not regularly visit temples, but they often have an altar in the house, to which they may chant to, and put offerings (food) every day. This is in general the extent of worship, but altars are often eventually passed onto the first son of the family.

[I am...]

I also take issue to the way that they meditate in Japanese Buddhism - because some old guy typically carries a bit stick around, and smacks people who are meditating. How are you supposed to get into the correct mental state if you are continuously jolted out of it? (When I meditate, it is a jolt to even be touched by anyone sometimes - but the shock of being smacked by a big stick is probably many times worse.)

This is mental training to accept abuse at a lower level of indoctrination so that later you accept even more as you progress up the hierarchy, where the implied promise is that eventually you'll be able to reciprocate the abuse on newer/lower members of the hierarchy.

I think you're absolutely correct about the jolt of being smacked by a stick, it would actually be a bit traumatic to one's system, akin to repeated physical torture in order to condition a person to have a Pavlovian response of acquiescence to his captors, well described by Orwell in Nineteen Eighty-four and the Gitmo training manual.

Great people, these Buddhists. So peaceful and enlightened and shit.

Going off of what I have read here (which is admittedly limited) your opinion does not appear to be very objective. For many of us that practice Buddhism, the proof is simple: practice and it works. I am sorry that you may not have found many balanced Buddhists in life thus far, but that does not mean that they do not exist. I have observed however that at times people that are imbalanced in some fashion often gravitate towards that which they feel might balance them better. Those in this "phase" of being tend to be poor spokespersons for that which they have gravitated towards.

[Bill]

regarding the stick hits.

It is not traumatic at all. The stick is rested on the meditators shoulder, the meditator gives a very slight nod, gets wacked. So you know its coming and you, in a sense, agree to it.
You only get struck when it is noticed that you have come out of your meditative state and they give you the wack to free your mind from its confused state so you can re-enter a proper mind state. They do not just go around giving out wacks randomly without warning.

At least, thats how it was explained to me.

[wiesiek]

peoples are peoples, that`s all
Buddhists are too

re- stick
as Bill explained,
but
not official warning, or different teaching for US?
you`re warning yourself when losing proper mind state, teacher is reading it from the postures of the students.
whack is the reminder .

[Michael]

regarding the stick hits.

It is not traumatic at all. The stick is rested on the meditators shoulder, the meditator gives a very slight nod, gets wacked. So you know its coming and you, in a sense, agree to it.
You only get struck when it is noticed that you have come out of your meditative state and they give you the wack to free your mind from its confused state so you can re-enter a proper mind state. They do not just go around giving out wacks randomly without warning.

At least, thats how it was explained to me.

OMG, are you serious?

Here's 9 minutes from an Australian TV show, typically sensational as TV goes, with Jon Safran visiting a Zen Buddhist monastery in Japan, showing how the stick is used. Notice how an endless list of details is required to be followed by the newcomer for the second-to-second functioning in the temple. The obvious effect on the applicant for religious training is to feel they are constantly wrong, which creates a very palpable psychic pressure on the neophyte that is released by capitulation to punishment, followed by acceptance of the teacher or another trainee of a higher status level. That cycle would be repeated constantly, multiple times throughout the day.

Obviously this is a TV show and everything is heavily edited, but all that is shown in this clip are techniques for application of abuse as part of a lengthy protocol of mental indoctrination or brainwashing.

EDIT: forgot the link apparently



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bniRZSeVQMw

[aiasthewall]

There are many different sects. Practices differ. Soto for example does not always use stick.

[Michael]

Great people, these Buddhists. So peaceful and enlightened and shit.

Going off of what I have read here (which is admittedly limited) your opinion does not appear to be very objective. For many of us that practice Buddhism, the proof is simple: practice and it works. I am sorry that you may not have found many balanced Buddhists in life thus far, but that does not mean that they do not exist. I have observed however that at times people that are imbalanced in some fashion often gravitate towards that which they feel might balance them better. Those in this "phase" of being tend to be poor spokespersons for that which they have gravitated towards.

Admittedly, when I generalize about a large group of people, the overall gist of what I say is subjective and based on limited personal experience, although there is a significant amount of factual or objective data mixed into my opinion. I also don't think people who make general claims to objectivity, without specifying the exact context, are credible.

Of course I know nothing about your background, I am..., so I don't mean you when I say that I distinguish between formally trained Buddhists and others, such as Westerners who are mostly into the philosophy and the reading and have not been fully exposed to the culture of a Buddhist society or monastery life. It is solely representatives of the latter group who have influenced my opinion about Buddhism in general, and without exception in an extremely violent and negative way.

It is difficult to find a meme in American society that is not propaganda or the opposite of the reality. My experiences with the Buddhists I've described above seems to follow this pattern of inversion wherein the reality of people who have created a public relations image of being peaceful and loving is the exact opposite, and to such an incredible extreme that it is difficult to imagine peace being part of the goal of this institution, regardless of its variety of sects, etc.

There are always exceptions to generalizations.

[Michael]

peoples are peoples, that`s all
Buddhists are too

re- stick
as Bill explained,
but
not official warning, or different teaching for US?
you`re warning yourself when losing proper mind state, teacher is reading it from the postures of the students.
whack is the reminder .

The film "A Few Good Men" (1992) shows how an abusive culture is pre-eminent above any written rules that are intended to limit the power of higher status and more powerful superiors within a system. To suggest that there is an acceptable way to beat someone with a stick is as absurd as the character Jack Nicholson portrayed in the film, an abusive USMC Colonel, insisting that his criminality should be accepted as part of the cost of defending his country from the Cubans.

Beating people with sticks is obviously abuse and intimidation, and that any institution would openly display it and then provide some cockamamie rationalization for its ultimate benefit is further evidence of a culture of abuse being instituted through classic abuser-victim psychology, the foundation of which is blaming the victim.

"I hit you with the stick to help you" implies the fault lies within the victim.

[Peacedog]

The story I got on the stick thing was pretty simple. I don't know if it is true.

During the warring states period many people were going into the temples to become monks, basically because being a monk meant no one would kill you and you were guaranteed a meal.

In response to so many people wanting to join up, the religious authorities had to devise ways to determine if someone was sincere in wanting to be a monk, or was simply trying to avoid the draft/starvation.

So the stick thing was invented as were progressively longer periods of sitting meditation. Unfortunately, these methods stuck around long after their need was gone.