Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

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Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby windwalker on Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:44 pm

Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michae ... wn-n182626

thoughts?

what would they be trying to prove with "another" autopsy?
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby Steve James on Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:02 pm

Well, maybe they just don't trust the popo there. Otoh, I don't recall hearing any report from any autopsy, except that the person died of gunshot wounds. Maybe that it was an accident? But, I understand why some people are suspicious of the gov't getting involved in a small town issue.
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby windwalker on Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:21 pm

"Due to the extraordinary circumstances involved in this case and at the request of the Brown family, Attorney General Holder has instructed Justice Department officials to arrange for an additional autopsy to be performed by a federal medical examiner,"


it is interesting in that they did not release the findings of the first autopsy, just as the ( DOJ, according to some) did not want to release the video, but yet cite "extraordinary circumstances" which would beg the the question of what "extraordinary circumstance"

should be pretty easy to clear up the public narrative of events that so far
have yet to be proven.
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby Steve James on Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:58 pm

Would you explain what the public narrative is. Up here, they're talking about Eric Garner. Personally, I've got no clue about "what happened." Then again, I'm not particularly anti-police or gov't. Afa the public response, there, I'm neither arrogant or naive enough to claim to have an explanation. Clearly, this incident created a catalyst for the reactions, but I don't know the history of the town. It's not like there were riots before this happened. Anyway, I don't see the problem with a second autopsy. I'm not going to speculate that it is something sinister because, from all accounts, the guy was shot. So, cause of death isn't an issue unless there's some suggestion that it wasn't a gun shot wound. That is, unless it's discovered that he died from some other cause. Hey, I don't know. Apart from the rhetorical "it's interesting that", what do you think, have heard or know?
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby windwalker on Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:08 pm

its public, google is your friend.

The independent autopsy was conducted by high-profile pathologist Michael Baden. Baden testified in the O.J. Simpson, Phil Spector and Drew Peterson murder trials.

Family attorney Daryl Parks did not provide additional details about the preliminary results.

However, the New York Times reported that two of the bullets struck Brown in the head. The other four struck him in the right arm — and all six were fired into his front.

“This is bound to escalate tensions,” the Rev. Jesse Jackson told CNN. “This is a very provocative report.”

http://pix11.com/2014/08/17/michael-bro ... ult-shows/
what is bound to escalate tensions, are those down there saying things like " this is a very provocative report"

attorney Daryl Parks did not provide additional details about the preliminary results


they already know the results, just trying to find a way to present it that supports their narrative.
notice there is no distance mentioned, or other things that would tend to suggest what happened.
Should be easy to show where he was shot, from what distance
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby Steve James on Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:28 pm

Ya mean, I could look up what people are saying? Well, sure.

what is bound to escalate tensions, are those down there saying things like " this is a very provocative report"


Well, I think that it would be the content of the report. I guess what seems provocative is that the guy was shot so many times when, if I read the rest of the article correctly, witnesses say that he had his hands up. But, I'm not clear on your original point about the feds doing another autopsy. Michael Baden was working independently for the family, no? Would the feds be doing a third autopsy? Just asking because you know more about the case.

Afa whether it should be easy to show where and from what distance he was shot, did the police coroner do the first autopsy? or was Baden's the first? Anyway, the number of shots might have an effect on the reaction of the public who finds out. However, it doesn't make a real difference when it comes to shots to the head. So, the numbers are really a side issue, imo; but that doesn't mean anything when it comes to emotions.
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby windwalker on Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:02 pm

Its those very people saying things like
this is a very provocative report
IMO are the ones causing the tensions.
The local gov. by not presenting the facts as they know them allows a narrative to be constructed that supports what ever underling tensions the community has.
They still have not to my knowledge released the offices physical condition at the time of the Incident supporting his version of events.

Found it strange that the man shot, was being presented in one light, when it was shown that he and his friend had just robbed a store
its ignored as not having any impact on the following events.
Being stopped by the police regardless of cause after having committed a robbery, IMO would tend to put anyone in a heighten state,
which would help to explain the officers' narrative of events.

So far, it seems strange for those that people look for to confirm things, are the very ones who seem to be fanning the flames.

statements like
“In my capacity as the forensic examiner for the New York State Police, I would say, ‘You’re not supposed to shoot so many times’,” he told the Times. “Right now there is too little information to forensically reconstruct the shooting.”

http://news.yahoo.com/unarmed-black-tee ... 12249.html

do not add or change the facts. and are inflammatory
‘You’re not supposed to shoot so many times’

ok so how many times is one supposed to shoot? I would say until what ever one is shooting at, is no longer a threat

Right now there is too little information to forensically reconstruct the shooting.”

kind of BS,,,,what did the officer report happened, what does the evidence show.

our "free press" ::) does little to hold those that they interview accountable for the comments they make.
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby Steve James on Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:18 pm

Having just read an article on it, the police chief says that the officer didn't know about the robbery. Afa the shooting, I haven't heard the officer's account. Have you?
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby windwalker on Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:40 pm

Johnson said that after a struggle between Wilson and Brown in which Wilson drew his gun and fired, Brown was struck and ran away. After that, according to Johnson, Wilson emerged from his cruiser and continued shooting even as Brown was surrendering.

“He shot again, and once my friend felt that shot, he put his hands in the air, and he started to get down,” Johnson told a television reporter shortly after the shooting.

Johnson said that after Brown began to move to the ground, Wilson “fired several more shots.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/17/unwit ... z3AicwuS5e


his friend that helped him rob the store.

the bad part about this is that the local gov, already had the facts and allowed
the story to be told by those who profit from it.

Johnson, 22, did not tell reporters that he was present with Brown moments before the altercation with Wilson at a strong-arm robbery at a convenience store. There, Brown stole a box of cigars and shoved a store clerk. During his retelling to television reporters, Johnson also indicated that Wilson harassed the pair for no reason.

Ferguson police chief Tom Jackson said on Friday that Wilson was not aware that Brown had been involved in the strong-arm robbery when he first encountered them. But as Wilson was pulling away, he heard a police dispatch call describing the suspects in the robbery. He then doubled-back to confront the two, according to Jackson.

Wilson told investigators that Brown punched him in the face and tried to steal his gun during a struggle inside Wilson’s cruiser.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/17/unwit ... z3AidoUjeD


Wilson told investigators that Brown punched him in the face and tried to steal his gun during a struggle inside Wilson’s cruiser.



“How’d he get from there to here?” a bystander asked a man who claimed to have seen Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson shoot Brown.

“Because he ran,” said the witness.

“Police was still in the truck,” he described.

“Why his body come this way though?” the other man asked.

“He was like, over the truck, [garbled] so then he ran. Police got out, and ran after he him,” said the witness.

After running, the witness said that Brown stopped and turned back around.

“Next thing I know he’s coming back towards the police. The police had his gun drawn on him,” the witness said.

“Police kept dumping on him, I’m thinking that the police missed him,” he continued, saying that he heard “at least five shots” and saying that “police are…this far from him.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/17/unwit ... z3Aif2dfMG


guy was a big guy, 9mm doesn't have the stopping power of a 45.
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby Michael on Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:17 am

This may or may not be relevant to the Brown case, and may also be considered speculation, but one theory is that now that the police have been militarized, the powers that be would very much like any kind of large scale violence to justify some kind of a limited crackdown, perhaps a test case for curfews and such. But the waters are definitely murky.

Does the media know any other way to do their job, such as it is to get headlines, other than to be provocative and incendiary? Could the murder of Trayvon Martin have been handled any more provocatively, including interference form the DOJ? Other recent cases, such as Dorner, follow similar patterns from my point of view.
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby Steve James on Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:04 am

Um, do you read the Daily Caller regularly? Fwiw, the articles there seem to start with a bias. For ex., I see this article talking about the "knockout game" in the town. Yeah, right. Anyway, as Mike will confirm, I'm not a police basher. I don't know what happened or know how the investigation will turn out. I'm just not going to get upset at the "narratives" that come from msm or internet blogs.

I do agree that the way incidents are reported in the msm are often meant to be provocative. Iow, to get attention, not to cause violence. These stories have an easy formula: (iinm in this case) "White policeman shoots unarmed Black youth." The formula sells papers, as they say, and so it becomes a pattern, and so do the responses. Then there's the internet; some people believe reports from blogs before they'll believe anything else, even eye-witnesses. So, ultimately, people use the msm and internet blogs to confirm their own narratives about who's to blame in these incident.

For my part, if the guy was struggling for the officer's gun and got shot, that's too bad for him. If the only witness was a criminal, then I'm sure the officer's word will stand --it usually does. But, I didn't know about the car aspect. If so, then it doesn't seem untoward for an autopsy to determine exactly how the guy was shot. If they results don't match with his story, then there'll be more investigation. AS you said, it should be easy; and there should already be an answer.
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby windwalker on Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:17 am

The pain the family is feeling, comes from not really knowing or understanding what happened, and being advised by
"those who will tend to profit from the events"
much of this IMO would have been adverted had the accomplice who helped him rob the store would have spoken up, guess it's
to much to expect.

A law enforcement source told CNN that Ferguson police actually wanted to release the video one day earlier on Thursday, but held off because of objections by the Justice Department.

Following the release of the video, Jackson said that the officer who shot and killed Brown, Darren Wilson, did not know the teenager was a suspect in the “strong-arm robbery” when he first apprehended him for walking in the middle of the street. Later, he told CNN’s Don Lemon that Wilson may have made the connection between the earlier incident and Brown as he was stopping him.

A lawyer for Brown’s family called the release of the video a “sideshow” that was “aimed at denigrating” his clients’ son’s image. After a period of relative calm in the city Thursday night, protests and looting picked up on Friday night, perhaps as a result of the video’s release.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/doj-reported ... ery-video/

A lawyer for Brown’s family called the release of the video a “sideshow” that was “aimed at denigrating” his clients’ son’s image.


A lawyer 8-) decided it was better to allow the public story to continue with out providing a context in which the actions could be viewed



wow, our free press, our moral and upright gov. selectively allowing what is shown or not in order to protect who?
"jesse, and Al" may not be able to be held accountable for their words, are never questioned about them as it feeds the news cycle.
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby Michael on Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:13 am

Ten minutes on youtube can give anyone who wants it ammunition to bash the police in completely undefendable situations where they beat or murdered defenseless and compliant people. WW posted one more than a year back about a fellah in Pennsylvania that will make your blood boil.

Steve, not sure if you're asking me or WW, but no, I don't know the Daily Caller.
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby Steve James on Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:42 am

Michael wrote:Ten minutes on youtube can give anyone who wants it ammunition to bash the police in completely undefendable situations where they beat or murdered defenseless and compliant people. WW posted one more than a year back about a fellah in Pennsylvania that will make your blood boil.

Steve, not sure if you're asking me or WW, but no, I don't know the Daily Caller.


See, I grew up in the era where there were outright murders by the police. My blood was boiled and tears were shed decades ago, long before youtube. For me, it's not about placing the police above suspicion. But, I don't put anything past criminals either. I know of a guy who got free from his handcuffs in the back of a patrol car while he was being transported; he killed both officers. Otoh, not long ago, there was the story of a suspect who was shot while in a patrol car. The claim was that he got free and accidentally shot himself. I don't know. So, I'm not going to pretend to make stuff up or speculate. Nothing would surprise me.

Afa the Daily Caller, take a look at the other articles. Even if one agrees, it seems the main focus is to contradict or indict. It's ok, as long as it is understood that it's not intended as news. Well, the stories seem like court trials where the victim cries rape and the defense cries whore.
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby Michael on Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:58 am

I can definitely understand what you're saying, Steve.
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