Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby windwalker on Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:00 pm

grzegorz wrote:
chud wrote:
Peacedog wrote:Don't be a piece of shit petty criminal. Don't commit crimes. Do not resist arrest.



Yep, common sense. Things are not going to go well if you resist arrest.
I'm reminded of Lorraine Bracco's line from Goodfellas: "It wasin
better to be polite and call the lawyer."


Sometimes it's easier said than done.

In this case Garner broke up a fight and the police knew of him and started questioning him. He hadn't done anything wrong, but as known for selling loose cigarettes. Say what you will but if anyone grabbed me for no reason I'd probably react similarly. The fact is in some neighborhoods the police are just another gang.

In fact I heard an interview with the head of the Oath Keepers saying that about Ferguson PD after seeing what was happening there.


seems like some people did complain and that was why the officers responded.

Patrick J. Lynch, the president of the Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association, assailed Mr. de Blasio, saying that officers around the city felt he had thrown them “under the bus.”

“What we did not hear, is that you cannot resist arrest,” Mr. Lynch said at a news conference.

“We did not hear that that’s why these police officers were at that location that day,” he said. “The community called and complained and said there’s a problem at that location and we were asked to respond.”

“If the mayor wants to change policies and wants us to stand down against crime then say that,” he added. “It’s his policies that we go out and we enforce and the laws of the state of New York.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/05/nyreg ... .html?_r=0
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby Teazer on Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:49 pm

The best suggestions I've heard so far to overcome conflict of interest and racial bias problems in such cases are:
1. These cases always require a special prosecutor to be used
2. Body-cams for all police on patrol, with an assumption that if they deliberately turn them off or cover the lens, they are hiding something nefarious.
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby Steve James on Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:21 pm

I don't think people would trust any special prosecutor who had a race :).

But, afa body cams, forget the police; put them on citizens. I'm already considering getting a dash cam put in --as a toy, really. But, I would love to be able to say, "Officer, this conversation is being recorded for security purposes."
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby windwalker on Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:56 pm

in taiwan, most people from what I've seen use dash cams already.
thinking of getting one also.

the thing about body-cams, is the storage space for the video that it would take if all officers had to wear them.
would be very expensive, other issues of who, what, and how long it would have to be stored...but I do agree its probably
the best tech answer that I've heard so far.
http://www.policeone.com/police-product ... wont-work/

also as was seen in this case, what people see is not always so clear.



looking at some of the clips, what was shown is actually what they train to do.
if some one filmed this on the street I wonder how it would be perceived.
especially if they did not capture the whole incident and only caught the end point.

in this clip its not shown how it started only the end point.


in both cases the person died resisting arrest, but "the president" didnt comment on this one.
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:20 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby Steve James on Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:07 pm

in both cases the person died resisting arrest, but "the president" didnt comment on this one.


Obviously because the guy was White ;) Too bad people didn't a big thing out of it. Then again, how about addressing the problem of the ____ police beating someone to death, rather than the President. That's if one cares about the guy at all, rather than using his death to make a personal point ;)
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby windwalker on Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:13 pm

Steve James wrote:
in both cases the person died resisting arrest, but "the president" didnt comment on this one.


Obviously because the guy was White ;) Too bad people didn't a big thing out of it. Then again, how about addressing the problem of the ____ police beating someone to death, rather than the President. That's if one cares about the guy at all, rather than using his death to make a personal point ;)

"the president" and others are part of the problem.

but no matter, I thought I had addressed the "problem" ,,,Ok we can try again

My 5 tips on how black and others can survive a police encounter with police are very simple and if you stop and think about it make a lot of sense:


1.Do NOT under any circumstance ARGUE with police out in the street. You cannot win an argument with police out in the field.

2.2. Do NOt raise your voice, but stay cool and calm. Do NOT make any quick or aggressive movements. Remember the police officer does NOT know you and will react to protect himself or those around him.

3.Police know that hands kill, so always keep your hands in plain sight. Before you move your hands ask permission, officer I need to go into my back pocket to get my ID, is that OK with you?

4.NEVER run from police even if you are innocent. When you run you create a heightened sense that something must be wrong here.

5.DO NOT resist arrest – if you do one of three things is going to happen:

a.You are going to get beat down till you stop resisting
b.You are going to get injured or accidentally killed
c.And you are going to have charges taken out against you

http://www.policeone.com/Crowd-Control/ ... ody-death/

I think it falls under b.
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby windwalker on Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:26 pm

NYPD, NYPD Police Union please get Force Science, Dr. Darrell Ross, Dr. Ted Chan and Dr. Vincent Dimaio to review the case and do a full court press with the news media on how this was not the officers fault.

If Garner would no have died (at not fault of the officers on scene) this video would be used as a training video on how quickly the resisting Mr. Garner was brought under control without the use of Pepper Spray or the Taser. Had the Pepper Spray or a Taser been used, I am sure he would have died too, then they would have been bitching why not use some sort of take down move. Geraldo Rivera said he thought the Taser should have been used first in this case. Go figure.

The best thing about the Taser being used, is Taser would fight the suit tooth and nail with experts, including some of the ones listed above. This whole incident was done in seconds. It was not a long drawn out procedure.

http://www.policeone.com/Crowd-Control/ ... ody-death/

interesting reading the comment sections lots of introspection by those who do this for a living.
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby Teazer on Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:10 pm

From the latest document dump. That witness saying Brown charged Wilson (unlike pretty much everyone else who saw it) and happened to get brought in twice to testify in support of Wilson's story..... Bat-shit crazy person.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/unmasking-Ferguson-witness-40-496236
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby grzegorz on Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:10 am

Officials: US report finds racial bias in Ferguson police

Associated Press By ERIC TUCKER 6 hours ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — A Justice Department investigation found sweeping patterns of racial bias within the Ferguson, Missouri, police department, with officers routinely discriminating against blacks by using excessive force, issuing petty citations and making baseless traffic stops, according to law enforcement officials familiar with its findings.

The report, which Ferguson city officials said would be released Wednesday, marks the culmination of a months-long investigation into a police department that federal officials have described as troubled and that commanded national attention after one of its officers shot and killed an unarmed black man, 18-year-old Michael Brown, last summer.

It chronicles discriminatory practices across the city's criminal justice system, detailing problems from initial encounters with patrol officers to treatment in the municipal court and jail. Federal law enforcement officials described its contents on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly before the report is released.

The full report could serve as a roadmap for significant changes by the department, if city officials accept its findings. Past federal investigations of local police departments have encouraged overhauls of fundamental police procedures such as traffic stops and the use of service weapons. The Justice Department maintains the right to sue police departments that resist making changes.

The city of Ferguson released a statement acknowledging that Justice Department officials supplied a copy of the report to the mayor, city manager, police chief and city attorney during a private meeting Tuesday in downtown St. Louis. The statement offered no details about the report, which the city said it was reviewing and would discuss Wednesday after the Justice Department makes it public.

The investigation, which began weeks after Brown's killing last August, is being released as Attorney General Eric Holder prepares to leave his job following a six-year tenure that focused largely on civil rights. The findings are based on interviews with police leaders and residents, a review of more than 35,000 pages of police records and analysis of data on stops, searches and arrests.

Federal officials found that black motorists from 2012 to 2014 were more than twice as likely as whites to be searched during traffic stops, even though they were 26 percent less likely to be found carrying contraband, according to a summary of the findings.

The review also found that blacks were 68 percent less likely than others to have their cases dismissed by a municipal court judge. And from April to September of last year, 95 percent of people kept at the city jail for more than two days were black, it found.

Of the cases in which the police department documented the use of force, 88 percent involved blacks, and of the 14 dog bites for which racial information is available, all 14 victims were black.

Overall, African-Americans make up 67 percent of the population of Ferguson, about 10 miles north of downtown St. Louis. The police department has been criticized as racially imbalanced and not reflective of the community's demographic makeup. At the time of the shooting, just three of 53 officers were black, though the mayor has said he's trying to create a more diverse police force.

Brown's killing set off weeks of protests and initiated a national dialogue about police officers' use of force and their relations with minority communities. A separate report to be issued soon is expected to clear Darren Wilson, the officer who shot Brown, of federal civil rights charges. A state grand jury declined to indict Wilson in November, and he resigned from the department.

Benjamin Crump, the attorney for the Brown family, said that if the reports about the findings are true, they "confirm what Michael Brown's family has believed all along — and that is that the tragic killing of an unarmed 18-year-old black teenager was part of a systemic pattern of inappropriate policing of African-American citizens in the Ferguson community."

The report says there is direct evidence of racial bias among police officers and court workers, and details a criminal justice system that issues citations for petty infractions such as walking in the middle of the street, putting the raising of revenue from fines ahead of public safety. The physical tussle that led to Brown's death began after Wilson told him and a friend to move from the street to the sidewalk.

The practice hits poor people especially hard, sometimes leading to jail time when they can't pay, the report says, and has contributed to a cynicism about the police on the part of citizens.

Among the report's findings was a racially tinged 2008 message in a municipal email account stating that President Barack Obama would not be president for very long because "what black man holds a steady job for four years."

The department has conducted roughly 20 broad civil rights investigations of police departments during Holder's tenure, including Cleveland, Newark, New Jersey, and Albuquerque, New Mexico. Most such investigations end with police departments agreeing to change their practices.

John Gaskin III, a St. Louis community activist, praised the findings, saying, "Ferguson police have to see the light in how they deal with people of color.

"It's quite evident that change is coming down the pike. This is encouraging," he said. "It's so unfortunate that Michael Brown had to be killed. But in spite of that, I feel justice is coming."

____

Associated Press writers Jim Salter and Jim Suhr in St. Louis and Alan Scher Zagier in Ferguson contributed to this report.


http://news.yahoo.com/ferguson-official ... 23706.html
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby grzegorz on Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:06 pm

This is solid evidence that there is a problem with the system. Although I know the conservative voices will just blame the minorities.
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby Dajenarit on Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:43 pm

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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby windwalker on Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:11 pm



is it any surprise they found what they looked for from the start?

Ask anyone living in a small town about the cops, and revenue sources.


Police: Slain officer a hero in 'fierce' gun battle with 2

http://news.yahoo.com/philadelphia-poli ... 28066.html


theres not one of them that can name the last 3 victims



is this true?

Other statistics in the FBI’s crime report claimed that in 2013, 68.9 percent of all individuals arrested were “white,” 28.3 percent were black, and 2.9 percent were of other races.

Furthermore, the FBI report claimed, “white” individuals were arrested more often for violent crimes than individuals of any other race and accounted for 58.4 percent of those arrests and that of adults arrested for murder, 52.1 percent were black, and 45.5 percent were “white.”

In addition, the FBI continued, black juveniles comprised 53.3 percent of all juveniles arrested for violent crimes and “white” juveniles accounted for 59.7 percent of all juveniles arrested for property crimes. The FBI claimed further that of juveniles arrested for drug abuse violations, 73.0 percent were “white” while “white” juveniles comprised 54.4 percent of juveniles arrested for aggravated assaults.

These figures make it sound like white criminality is extremely high in the US. However, as a study of the official statistics and definitions show, the FBI practices deliberate deception in this regard in order not to reveal the full extent of nonwhite criminality.

They do this by classing all Hispanics as “whites” in the offender statistics. They do this deliberately, because when the “victim” statistics are observed, Hispanics are then differentiated out as a separate racial group.

There is only one purpose to this deception: and that is to deliberately inflate “white” crime rates so as to cover up the reality that nonwhites commit the vast majority of violent crimes in America today.

http://newobserveronline.com/new-fbi-cr ... as-safest/
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby Dajenarit on Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:56 pm

Oh boy. ::)

What was i thinking...?
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby Dajenarit on Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:09 pm

All right, Windwalker. You think the vast majority of crimes in this country are committed by black people and that black people have a culture of criminality, or that the majority of us are predisposed to it.. yadda yadda. I think we got it after the 1000th time. If you have nothing new to add why bother? You keep trying to browbeat with that same sad song. Milwaukee isn't even Ferguson.

You know I try not to start unnecessary threads but I should of started my own. I had a brainfart. It was my fault for posting on this disaster of a thread, but then again you would of probably posted that racist bullshit on the other one too.
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Re: Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

Postby Taste of Death on Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:19 pm

Dajenarit wrote:All right, Windwalker. You think the vast majority of crimes in this country are committed by black people and that black people have a culture of criminality, or that the majority of us are predisposed to it.. yadda yadda. I think we got it after the 1000th time. If you have nothing new to add why bother? You keep trying to browbeat with that same sad song. Milwaukee isn't even Ferguson.

You know I try not to start unnecessary threads but I should of started my own. I had a brainfart. It was my fault for posting on this disaster of a thread, but then again you would of probably posted that racist bullshit on the other one too.


Steve's "Ha" thread could enlighten windwalker. But I doubt it.
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