Holder Orders DOJ to Do Further Autopsy on Michael Brown

[windwalker]

why do they always show the picture of when the "man" was young?
same as in the Trayvon Martin case.

The police chief said that Zimmerman was released because there was no evidence to refute Zimmerman's claim of having acted in self-defense, and that under Florida's Stand Your Ground statute, the police were prohibited by law from making an arrest.[7] The police chief also said that Zimmerman had had a right to defend himself with lethal force.[8] As news of the case spread, thousands of protestors across the country called for Zimmerman's arrest and a full investigation.[9] Six weeks after the shooting, amid widespread, intense, and in some cases misleading media coverage,[10][11] Zimmerman was charged with murder by a special prosecutor appointed by Governor Rick Scott.[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

"misleading media coverage" imagine that

[Dajenarit]

And please stop with the alleged robbery. Even the Missouri Gov. is calling bullshit on that one.

Ferguson got riots because they're trying to "besmirch" the victim as Gov. Nixon rightly pointed out and its irrelevant if the officer wasn't even aware of the alleged robbery. Bottom line, even if Officer Yokel was aware he straight executed that kid.

They ignored DOJ warnings about inciting negative potentially violent reactions by their criminalize the victim tactics. Always the same tactic in every case.
http://www.politicususa.com/2014/08/16/ ... sions.html

Even former NYPD Commisioner Ray Kelly of all people think it got handled bad.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/1 ... 91739.html

Just suspend your disbelief long enough to finally, clear as day see whats been going on since literally forever. Bullets instead of ropes.

[windwalker]

And please stop with the alleged robbery. Even the Missouri Gov. is calling bullshit on that one.

sure, no problem
they will go back and try to show a pattern with the cops actions based on his history.
the "victim" is portrayed as some one who would never, could not bother anyone "gentle giant"
wouldn't want anything showing something different interfering with that.


had they posted it like they wanted to in the beginning it might have allowed
people to see the mind set of someone being stopped after having committed an "alleged"
crime, instead of 2 people just walking down the street.

the facts will play themselves out, it will be interesting to see
what the pd defense will be, and whether he will be charged at all.

later

d

[Dajenarit]

So unarmed black men and teenagers keep getting shot by police and vigilantes so often that it can be statistically predicted and people want to cry about misleading media coverage and sensationalism conspiracy? Da fuck?

So people are just faking deaths to create racial tension? Or have all those people shot in just the last 2 years alone from LA to NY, all been hardened criminals in violent confrontations with police at the moment of death despite all the eyewitness and video accounts to the contrary.

Come on, Oscar Grant had his face on the ground, with the officer on top of him and he still got shot in the back. And people still screaming "he should of not resisted" or you have to comply and that won't happen". How much more can you comply with your face shoved in the ground? If a couple cops can't deal with a suspect in that position they aren't fit to be cops. "I thought it was my taser" Da fuck?

I guess now we have to flop to the ground like dead fish and play dead. Hands in the air don't seem to work anymore. They'll probably charge you with vandalizing public property when you drop to the ground though...

[Dajenarit]

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2 ... d-suspect/

I was the police chief in Kansas City, Missouri, when an unarmed African-American teenager was shot by a cop for a non-violent issue. The result was a peaceful and constructive public dialogue — the opposite of what is happening now in Ferguson, Missouri, in the aftermath of the shooting death of Michael Brown, an unarmed 18-year-old.

I was then the youngest big-city police chief in America, having just arrived from New York City, where I had been a deputy inspector in the New York Police Department during a high-crime period. But I had no real honeymoon in Missouri.

Just a few days after I took charge, on a crystal clear day in 1973, a uniformed officer responded to a daylight break-in of a home. The officer raised his shotgun and fired at a youth running away. He killed Rory Lark, age 15, unarmed and slight, at 115 pounds.

Police officers monitor a group of rowdy demonstrators during further protests in reaction to the shooting of Michael Brown near Ferguson, Missouri. The Kansas City Star filled its entire front page with an image of Lark, an angelic school photo of the youngster who looked to be a skinny 10-year-old. If you had a heart, you had to be touched.

If Lark had received any punishment, it would likely have been a week in juvenile hall. As a gesture of sympathy to the black community, I attended his funeral in civilian clothes. The officer was reprimanded and transferred.

Reasonable people, black and white, didn't want to hear how the law was complicated, or how a new chief was not responsible for the boy’s death. So we waited through the night to see if the city would burn. It didn't. The next day, however, pickets appeared in front of police headquarters demanding, in none-too-polite language, that I should go back to New York.

Kansas City’s black community wanted to know, Why had this boy died for a nonviolent crime? My police department responded quickly: He should not have been fired upon.

I reminded the media that I had announced in my first news conference as chief that I didn't believe officers should use their firearms unless there was imminent danger to human life. I planned to rewrite the firearms policy, I had declared, so that officers were officially ordered not to fire except under those circumstances.

Riot police clear a street with smoke bombs while clashing with demonstrators in Ferguson, Missouri. As soon as possible, we announced the official new policy. It prohibited police officers from firing at unarmed suspects. We cut back on all police use of military gear. We invited local community leaders to help shape police responses.

In the wake of the new policy, police shootings fell dramatically, and crime declined as local leadership joined with police in speaking out against crime.

The Lark shooting, remarkably similar to Ferguson today, offers lessons we can learn..

First, except for highly unusual circumstances, police have no excuse for killing unarmed people.

Second, it is in Americans’ national DNA that we be policed by civil, not military, institutions. So television and social media pictures of heavily armed police in military gear and armored vehicles are no way to gather public support. In Ferguson and across the nation, police need to recalibrate the use of deadly force — and return to traditional strategies of professional police forces working with the public to win support against criminals.

Demonstrators hold hands as they listen to speakers during a peaceful march in reaction to the shooting of Michael Brown near Ferguson, Missouri. Body cameras, better training and discipline, new police leadership and other strategies are crucial. But it is clear that U.S. police must recalibrate current militarization policies, in which officer safety is paramount.

The fundamental police duty is protection of life. Officer safety should never supersede democratic policing, where police officers adhere to their role as public servants willing to take reasonable risks to protect and serve.

As Kansas City chief, I was responsible for maintaining order within my city, releasing to the public all legally permissible information through the media, the mayor and state and local officials.

Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson, a self-appointed spokesman for an investigation of which he was not part, held frequent press conferences that only created more confusion. For example, when Jackson released the name of the officer involved in the shooting, he also released security camera stills of a convenience store robbery that he said are of Brown. Even though the Justice Department had asked the Ferguson Police Department not to do this.

Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson announces the name of the officer involved in the shooting of Michael Brown as officer Darren Wilson, in Ferguson, MissouriJackson also did not coordinate with Captain Ron Johnson of the Missouri State Highway Patrol, whom Governor Jay Nixon had put in charge to help defuse the situation.

Jackson seems to have foolishly tried to walk through a legal minefield, possibly releasing information that could hinder the prosecution of involved officers. This may also lead to charges of a police cover-up.

Yet, all the remedial steps now being debated focus on actions to take after a tragic death — not the deep-rooted causes that must be part of real reform.

Yes, the heat is now on Ferguson police. The real challenge, however, is to all U.S. policing. Police nationwide have drifted into the militarization of attitude and equipment as a strategy for controlling street demonstrations such as Occupy Wall Street, youth violence, heavy crime zones and drug searches.

This sort of militarization was intended for extremely rare hostage situations. The arrest of journalists and the use of tear gas in Ferguson is zany.

The major issue, though, still is the unanswered question: What justification do the police have for killing an unarmed suspect?

The answer is always: None.

[windwalker]

Summary
From 1999 to 2006, an average of 16,375 teenagers 12-19 years died each year. The overall risk of dying for teenagers (average annual death rate) is 49.5 deaths per 100,000 population. Accidents (unintentional injuries), homicide, suicide, cancer, and heart disease make up the five leading causes of death for teenagers. Motor vehicle fatality is the leading cause of accident death among teenagers, representing over one-third of all deaths to teenagers. Non-Hispanic black teenage males have the highest death rate compared with Hispanic and non-Hispanic white males and females. Homicide is the leading cause of death for non-Hispanic black male teenagers, with more than two of every five deaths due to homicide.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db37.htm

it would seem that the pd dept, are not the main things they need to worry about.

[Dajenarit]

Uh huh, yea Windwalker. Black crime statistics justifies accepting any and everything up to and including being executed by police while unarmed.

Brilliant argument. Never heard that one before.

[windwalker]

ya what ever.

other people get shot too, a Vietnamese woman a while back.
no one rioted or burned things down.

didnt say it justified anything.
only that what is presented is not always as it seems.
if the case is brought to trial the "evidence" presented will show
whether the officer was wrong or not.

you use the word "executed" nice

we learn fast

[Bill]

A 6'4" 300 lb man can easily kill a person with his fists. It happens all the time.

[Steve James]

A 6'4" 300 lb man can easily kill a person with his fists. It happens all the time.

I doubt that it happens all the time But, I've known 5'4"" 150lb men who could kill too.

But, afa the discussion of the incident in Ferguson, are we sure there was a scuffle? If so, was he shot during or after? If Brock Lesnar was holding his hands up, would that make shooting him ok?

Anyway, the "he was a big Negro" guy argument is as old as America --the Boston Massacre trials in 1771 to be specific. See Adams's defense of the British soldiers who shot Crispus Attucks.

It is plain the soldiers did not leave their station, but cried to the people, stand off: now to have this reinforcement coming down under the command of a stout Molatto fellow, whose very looks, was enough to terrify any person, what had not the soldiers then to fear? He had hardiness enough to fall in upon them, and with one hand took hold of a bayonet, and with the other knocked the man down: This was the behaviour of Attucks;-to whose mad behaviour, in all probability, the dreadful carnage of that night, is chiefly to be ascribed.

http://www.bostonmassacre.net/trial/acct-adams3.htm

[windwalker]

Anyway, the "he was a big Negro" guy argument is as old as America

gotta love it,,,how about he was a big guy " a fact" , and according to one narrative
damaged the officers' face by hitting him "yet to be proven" ?

anyway Im out,
thanks for the discussion.

later

d

[Steve James]

how about he was a big guy " a fact" , and according to one narrative
damaged the officers' face by hitting him "yet to be proven" ?

?? Who's denying he was a big guy? How big was the officer? I dunno.

But, dang, ya don't have to abandon your own thread You did ask for "thoughts."

[Dajenarit]

Narrative and eyewitness account are two different things.

This seemingly wasn't intended as a fact finding thread.

[Steve James]

Just made FOX news!

Ferguson cop beaten: Cop who shot Michael Brown dead was first 'severely beaten'

August 21, 2014

The Ferguson cop who shot 18-year-old Michael Brown was reportedly first severely beaten by Brown – a bolt from the blue that, if true, is not sitting well with proponents calling for Brown’s killer to be prosecuted. Darren Wilson, the white cop whose six rounds shot into the unarmed Brown sparked more than a week of daytime peaceful protests diverging with nighttime lootings, suffered “severe facial injuries” and was almost beaten to the point of unconsciousness by Brown.

Writes Fox News: “According to the well-placed source, Wilson was coming off another case in the neighborhood on Aug. 9 when he ordered Michael Brown and his friend Dorian Johnson to stop walking in the middle of the road because they were obstructing traffic. However, the confrontation quickly escalated into physical violence, the source said.”

The new evidence was released today by Fox News, and is exclusive to a Fox “insider” source. The report does seem to add credibility to a similar report first carried by the Gateway Pundit, which also cited a source claiming Wilson had his orbital bone broken by Brown in a scuffle moments before Brown was gunned down. Police previously said Wilson was treated at the hospital for injuries the night of the shooting.

Per the Fox News insider source: “The Assistant (Police) Chief took him to the hospital, his face all swollen on one side. He was beaten very severely.”

As has been previously reported, Brown was involved in a robbery at a convenience store where video captured him roughing up a store clerk and walking out with a box of cigars. Officer Johnson then stopped Brown and Johnson from the window of his patrol car, prior to realizing a robbery had occurred, advising the pair not to walk in the middle of the street. The confrontation quickly escalated; Brown refused to comply and a physical altercation ensued.

“They ignored [Wilson] and the officer started to get out of the car to tell them to move,” the source said. “They shoved him right back in, that’s when Michael Brown leans in and starts beating Officer Wilson in the head and the face.”

It’s known that some sort of kerfuffle involving the trio occurred, with a shot being fired inside of the police car as the men struggled. According to the source, Wilson demanded that Brown freeze after he tried to leave the scene. Brown allegedly stopped, turned and taunted Wilson.

Fox News picks up the story:

Brown started to walk away according to the account, prompting Wilson to draw his gun and order him to freeze. Brown, the source said, raised his hands in the air, and turned around saying, “What, you're going to shoot me?”

At that point, the source told FoxNews.com, the 6-foot-4, 292-pound Brown charged Wilson, prompting the officer to fire at least six shots at him, including the fatal bullet that penetrated the top of Brown's skull, according to an independent autopsy conducted at the request of Brown's family.

The source says that Wilson is “traumatized, scared for his life and his family, injured and terrified” that a grand jury, which convened this week to hear evidence, is going to “make some kind of example out of him” to placate a community of enraged dissenters who can barely see the facts beyond the supercharged angle of racism.

What is known is this: Brown committed a robbery, refused to comply to Officer Wilson's directions, and engaged with Wilson in a fight. What is not known however are the details that would sway these happenings one way or the other, or if the Fox News "source" is as credible at they purport.

Yeah, it would be great to know "the source." But, saying there is a source is more than enough. I did a google, and the word "source" is highlighted in all of them. In journalism school, they (used to) teach you that at least two "sources" were necessary before something was printed. Of course, reporters aren't required to reveal their sources, but they are supposed to have more than one. Anyway, it figures that FOX picked it up. Then again, it should be easy to check the hospital records; and I'm sure there are photos of the officer and his injuries. At any rate, if the report is true, then the robbery had nothing to do with why the altercation started. Please don't use the "mind of the criminal after the crime" argument. If the officer simply asked them to move out of the road, it doesn't sound credible that they started a fight with him instead. Now, maybe Brown forgot that he had robbed the store (were the cigars or blunts on him)?

"Grand jury"? I'm sure they'd ask for a change of venue; but, it's too late.

[windwalker]

To charge Wilson with a crime, the grand jury would need to determine the officer was not acting out of a reasonable fear of a threat to his own safety or the safety of the community. And although Brown was unarmed when he died, it won’t necessarily be easy for the prosecutor to prove Wilson was not acting in self-defense when he shot and killed the teen. Multiple eyewitnesses say Brown was attempting to get away from Wilson when the officer took his life. But it’s their word against the testimony of a six-year veteran of the police force with no past history of disciplinary action.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/what-grand-j ... n-shooting

and other witnesses who say otherwise, the "evidence" will prove out which is true or not.
the preceding events, just as the officers history will enter into the determination as to
the mind state of both.

it doesn't sound credible that they started a fight with him instead. Now, maybe Brown forgot that he had robbed the store (were the cigars or blunts on him)?

do you mean credible as in not wanting to get arrested?
trying to get away thinking the cops are on to them?

"maybe he forgot" mmm, need to see the hospital records for the officer which will come out soon.
then we will see if he "forgot" or not.

the interesting part is that if they admit that he did rob the store and beat up the clerk and the officer "knew" of this
it would tend to show imo that the cop didnt follow any procedure for the stop.

It sounds like the officer didnt realize it and was caught off guard by some one trying to run who just committed a crime not thinking he would not be shot.
by portraying him as the "gentle giant" just walking down the street it would seem that " he" wouldn't have any motive for
attacking the officer if indeed that was what happened.

have to wait and see whats presented.