Islam and ISIS

[Interloper]

AFAICR, most Middle East countries are and have always been either dictatorships or absolute monarchies.

[Steve James]

AFAICR, most Middle East countries are and have always been either dictatorships or absolute monarchies.

...put in power by outside interests. Saddam was able to keep Iraq under control. But he had help. In the ME, religion and state are often the rule. Democracy is the exception in most of the world, and democracy as we know it today is a very recent phenomenon. Otoh, rulers who take in the profits from a nation's resources while the rest of the population remains in poverty are as old as time.

[leifeng]

Democracy is a joke in general and a trick by the powers that be to manipulate the ignorant commoners into believing that they have any power. It might work a bit in a small-rich-educated society but in the ME it is a such a funny joke. Let's vote on killing the infidels!

[Steve James]

Let's vote on killing the infidels!

Ah, that would be a great poll for Christians ... or Muslims! Whaddaya think the results would be? Shucks, I'd love to hear the alternatives, too.

Otoh, I know of some historical examples of religions changing religions. The process hasn't been pleasant.

[leifeng]

I don't know if Christians are motivated enough though. For Muslims apart from the spiritual side there is a tiny earthly bonus as well because you can kill the male infidels and take their wives and girls as concubine.

[Michael]

Weren't most ME countries moving towards secular governments at some point in history and then had that bombed out them? Then fundamentalists came in to fill the void in the chaos/ ensuing civil war?

Off the top of my head:

Iran - Mossedegh 1953. Not bombed, coup by MI6 and CIA, declassified and admitted by US govt, Sec. of State Albright, who gave minimal apology late 1990's under Pres. Clinton. Oil resources desired, Shaw installed, who was then ousted by similar process once he began to assert nationality, suddenly died of cancer in USA and strict, fundamentalist religious govt. installed with Western patsy Khomeni as leader. Continuously demonized in Western media as terrorist nation despite USA proxy war against them via Iraq with chemical and biological weapons from 1980-88, as well as logistical support provided to Iraq for over 8 years as they killed perhaps one million Iranians with US help and illegal weapons, remains of which were blown up in first Gulf War to destroy the evidence, sickening thousands of US soldiers.

Egypt - Gamal Abdel Nasser, 1956 - 70. A secular government with a strong nationalist leader, who turned away from the West in order to promote the interests of, gasp!, his own people and country, and accepted infrastructure assistance from the USSR. Was attacked by Israel covertly with terrorism (Lavon Affair 1954) and overtly with US logistical/spy support (6 day war 1967, again 1973), and more importantly by The Muslim Brotherhood, a proxy of MI6 since its creation, continuously used against secular governments in the Middle East by US/UK/NATO.

Iraq - Hussein 1991 & 2003. Like the Shaw of Iran, installed by USA and ran afoul of West when he asserted secular govt and national interests and continued to develop quality of life increasing infrastructure, strong military, etc. Almost all infrastructure destroyed by US/UK/NATO. Terrorism not existent under Hussein now rampant, and borders completely insecure allowing terrorist playground not possible under Hussein. Over one million dead as result of US/UK/NATO continuous bombing and wars now into year 24, plus millions more refugees. US Sec. of State Albright said 500,000 dead children in Iraq was worth it to get rid of Hussein [that the US installed and supported].

Serbia - Milsoevic 1999, not Middle East, but precedent setting. Asserted nationality, refused to join Anglo/American/Euro central banking cartels, bombed to smithereens by NATO, approved by either Clinton or Gore one fine day in April 20,1999. Spun by Western media as limited air campaign of sth. like 76 days of bombing as much infrastructure as possible in Serbia, reminiscent of Vietnam War era "body count" campaigns. Great live fire testing opportunity for new stealth aircraft, for joy.

Libya - Qaddafi 2011. Secular government holding together tribal society under dictatorial control. Highest standard of living in Africa, free education, refused to join Anglo/American/Euro central banking cartels, allegedly donated huge sums to Sarkozy, who pushed for NATO humanitarian bombing as thank you and way out of secret deal, approved by Obama. Qaddafi murdered on camera with NATO logistical help. Now most infrastructure destroyed, country descending into chaos as terrorist staging point in northeast allowed next target: Syria, as well as terrorist destabilization to south, eg. Mali and Sudan.

Egypt - Mubarak 2011. Secular government that was asserting national interests again, as well as developing commerce with the Western-hated Iran. Coup against Mubarak led to a new leader, Morsi, who acquiesced to IMF austerity conditionalities such as stopping food and fuel subsidies, as well as supported a military attack on Syria, which used to be part of Egypt and was under attack by the West as described below. Extensive media manipulation including faked protests filmed outside Egypt used to garner support of populace of Western countries, always part of the color revolution protocol.

Syria - Bashar al Assad 2011. Secular government holding together multi-ethnic and multi-religious society with very little violent crime under a stable government that sometimes served as black site for USA renditions. Some gratitude, eh? In 3 years of attacks by foreign fighters pouring into Syria through NATO supported Turkey and paid by Qatar and Saudi Arabia, trained by Anglo-Americans and NATO, equipped by weapons caches from destroyed Libya, resulting in now 200,000 dead in Syria with more than one million refugees pouring outward.

CONCLUSION: There is a very clear pattern that USA/UK/NATO, in order to control access to natural resources like oil at the behest of corporate cartels, support backward Middle Eastern govt's that promote radical religious sects, which they export as CIA legions into Middle East countries with stable, secular governments that make attempts at maintaining national sovereignty. Because of the actions of these Wahabi and Takfiri fighters, massive amounts of prejudice are hyped in order to promote fear within the populations of the Western countries who are attacking the secular governments of the Middle East.

[leifeng]

Conclusion: Big corporations really know how to exploit the inner potentials of certain cultures.

[Michael]

Conclusion: Big corporations really know how to exploit the inner potentials of certain cultures.

Are you referring to Westerners who allow their governments to be hijacked by corporate lobbyists and their NGO's resulting in endless wars against other nations so those corporations can exploit resources at any human cost, or perhaps you're referring Muslim cults of violence who justify themselves with completely outdated and otherwise popularly irrelevant interpretations of ancient writings? And which is more foolish?

[leifeng]

Both as ordinary people are just rats for them but mostly reffering to the side that is losing more.