Police brutality?

Rum, beer, women, movies, nice websites, gaming, etc., without interrupting the flow of martial threads.

Police brutality?

Postby grzegorz on Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:31 pm

Last edited by grzegorz on Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 5477
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: Land of Cruel and Unusual Punishment

Re: busted windpipe from choke - police brutality?

Postby Steve James on Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:05 pm

Ok, for the bjj guys. Is this considered a "choke" or something else?
Image
Btw, in American freestyle and greco wrestling, it would be and would be considered illegal --or should I say "against the rules." As I've said, it's not really about the hold itself, but what happened afterward. I'm just curious how people would categorize it. It's not a face lock or even a neck crank submission. And yeah, I can see that 's not the classic "rear naked." I'm just asking.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 17035
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: busted windpipe from choke - police brutality?

Postby Trip on Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:31 pm

Greetings Steve,

It may be none of my business, and I say this to you respectfully, but I don't think the question matters.
It killed him.

The action the officers took killed an unarmed citizen. An unarmed citizen who before he died, said "I can't breath".
Too many unarmed American citizens are dying at the hands of the police.

I think when people read stories, it is too easy skip over that fact that if your breath is obstructed you need emergency relief...from whatever obstructs your breath.
Last edited by Trip on Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Trip
Huajing
 
Posts: 494
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:40 pm

Re: busted windpipe from choke - police brutality?

Postby Peacedog on Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:43 pm

About 400 people die per year in the US at the hands of the police. That is in a county of 315 million. So, your odds of dying are about 1 in 750000. About 30000 people die each year in auto accidents or 90 people PER day.

If you can speak, you can breathe.

Race hustling asshats are driving this issue. I imagine resisting arrest in China or virtually any other country would end a lot worse for most people on average than the U.S.
Last edited by Peacedog on Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Peacedog
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1334
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 5:22 am
Location: Standing right next to your girl....

Re: busted windpipe from choke - police brutality?

Postby Steve James on Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:52 pm

Oh, I agree. The hold, whatever it's called, was the proximate cause of death. I.e., it wasn't like he was having a heart or asthma attack before the incident. People have argued that it wasn't a choke hold. Okay, then what would it be called? Yes, it's semantics. And, as I said, the question for me is why he wasn't given care once he was done if he was obviously in distress.

Was the coroner's report released? Did it mention the actual cause of death, such as a heart attack. Guesses and suppositions are going to be thrown around freely; so, it'd be good to pin some things down.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 17035
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: busted windpipe from choke - police brutality?

Postby Steve James on Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:02 pm

I imagine resisting arrest in China or virtually any other country would end a lot worse for most people on average than the U.S.


I don't have stats on China, but I agree that the police in the US are not as bad as many others. However, Garner wasn't killed while resisting arrest. He died because he didn't receive medical care while in police custody.

Btw, I think that if it had been a White, Asian or Hispanic officer, the uproar would be the same. And even taking race completely out of the picture, even Rand Paul says it's a shame that someone is arrested for selling loose cigarettes in the hood. Yeah, it's a crime; so is not picking poop up after one's dog.

Anyway, I wasn't asking whether his resistance would have justified him being shot to death. I'm simply asking about the hold, not the politics.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 17035
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: busted windpipe from choke - police brutality?

Postby windwalker on Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:39 pm

Steve James wrote:Ok, for the bjj guys. Is this considered a "choke" or something else?
Image
Btw, in American freestyle and greco wrestling, it would be and would be considered illegal --or should I say "against the rules." As I've said, it's not really about the hold itself, but what happened afterward. I'm just curious how people would categorize it. It's not a face lock or even a neck crank submission. And yeah, I can see that 's not the classic "rear naked." I'm just asking.


this thread is titled "busted windpipe from choke-police brutality?"

The forbidden chokehold used by a cop to take down a Staten Island man in a deadly encounter Thursday did not damage his windpipe or neck bones, sources said./quote]

did I miss something?

But a source close to the Medical Examiner’s investigation said coroners are also investigating whether the chokehold still contributed to Garner’s death by aggravating his pre-existing conditions of obesity, asthma and possible heart disease. He died of cardiac arrest in the ambulance on the way to the hospital.

http://nypost.com/2014/07/19/man-in-cho ... e-autopsy/


And, as I said, the question for me is why he wasn't given care once he was done if he was obviously in distress.


because at the time maybe he didnt need it.

He died of cardiac arrest in the ambulance on the way to the hospital


mmm, on the way to the hospital

the guy was in poor health. obesity, asthma, and possible heart disease and all.
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
rule 19
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 6793
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Re: busted windpipe from choke - police brutality?

Postby Steve James on Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:55 pm

because at the time maybe he didnt need it.


Anyway...., So, you agree that it was a chokehold, even a "forbidden chokehold.". Just that he didn't die from it. If it was forbidden, the wasn't it also illegal?
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 17035
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: busted windpipe from choke - police brutality?

Postby windwalker on Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:59 pm

no,,it was as far as I've read not used. I addressed this.
and asked for some insight, this thread was the result.

its called perception, I had hoped that the "trained eyes" might shed some light or investigate it a little more.
In looking at some of the police training clips, what was done seem pretty standered.

Mr. Garner refused to comply? Should the officers have said, "oh well it's just cigarettes" next time, "oh well" it's just a gun and the perp doesn't want to go, so should the officers should just walk away?

The officers were addressing complaints about the "infraction" as a quality of life in a shit area.(by the way Mr. Garner was not new to the system and he was well aware of the ramifications of resisting) If you look close at the televised photo, that was "not" a choke hold, the Officer's wrist was bent eliminating forearm to throat. With that said Mr. Aviano25, this was a sad loss of life but "fully" controlled by Mr. Garner, if Mr. Garner would have simply "complied" like dozens of other perps, they would still be alive. When you resist, this creates a dangerous situation for both the officer and the perp.

I can name quickly two dozen deaths that resulted in the non-compliance of the perp.

Resistance in the "street" when placed under arrest is "not" the venue for anyone to voice their resistance, there is a system in place to deal with that, Mr. Garner chose to resist and unfortunately he (Mr. Garner) knew of his illness, the officers did not, Mr. Garner knew damn well that there would be a confrontation and he chose that instead of compliance.
God Bless The NYPD...


If you look close at the televised photo, that was "not" a choke hold, the Officer's wrist was bent eliminating forearm to throat. With that said Mr. Aviano25, this was a sad loss of life but "fully" controlled by Mr. Garner, if Mr. Garner would have simply "complied" like dozens of other perps, they would still be alive.


http://www.policeone.com/Crowd-Control/ ... ody-death/

the officers are and have looked at this

Resistance in the "street" when placed under arrest is "not" the venue for anyone to voice their resistance, there is a system in place to deal with that
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
rule 19
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 6793
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Re: busted windpipe from choke - police brutality?

Postby grzegorz on Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:10 pm

Peacedog wrote:About 400 people die per year in the US at the hands of the police. That is in a county of 315 million. So, your odds of dying are about 1 in 750000. About 30000 people die each year in auto accidents or 90 people PER day.

If you can speak, you can breathe.

Race hustling asshats are driving this issue. I imagine resisting arrest in China or virtually any other country would end a lot worse for most people on average than the U.S.


To me the issue isn't about race. But a simple question of whether or not we believe the police are above the law.

Also on the other thread I cited the case of Michael Bell Jr. who was shot in the temple with handcuffs on in front of his family because another officer lost his gun and said Michael had it.

Michael had blond hair and blue eyes and was the son of a vet who fought in three wars. Nothing happened to the officers. As far as race if they can get away with that in this case I see no reason to think they don't get away with it with minorities in rough neighborhoods.

Also even the Oath Keepers have said the Ferguson police are basically thugs.

Also Michael Savage thinks the N.Y. case is an injustice. ( So I hear.)
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 5477
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: Land of Cruel and Unusual Punishment

Re: busted windpipe from choke - police brutality?

Postby Steve James on Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:16 pm

no,,it was as far as I've read not used.


Does that mean that what you see in the picture isn't a chokehold? And, as far as you've read :). You just posted

The forbidden chokehold used by a cop to take down a Staten Island man in a deadly encounter Thursday did not damage his windpipe or neck bones, sources said./quote]

did I miss something?


Yeah, maybe you didn't read the quote carefully.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 17035
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: busted windpipe from choke - police brutality?

Postby grzegorz on Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:33 pm

More than a month later, the city medical examiner ruled Garner’s death a homicide, noting that the chokehold had contributed to his death. The chokehold is prohibited by New York Police Department policy.


Thus the title of the thread.

http://www.longislandpress.com/2014/12/ ... oke-death/

But that's fine, I gave it a new, better and a more appropriate title.

grzegorz wrote:


interesting how the man getting indicted for filming the police had his video removed.
Last edited by grzegorz on Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:19 am, edited 3 times in total.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 5477
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: Land of Cruel and Unusual Punishment

Re: busted windpipe from choke - police brutality?

Postby grzegorz on Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:37 pm



http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv5b9H2ati4

The Savage Nation is outraged too.

In fact Michael Wiener (his real name) wants all the officers involved to face murder charges.
Last edited by grzegorz on Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:22 am, edited 4 times in total.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 5477
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: Land of Cruel and Unusual Punishment

Re: Police brutality in New York?

Postby neijia_boxer on Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:50 am

whatever the case...i am going protesting...for my right to commit crimes and resist arrest . {joking}
neijia_boxer

 

Re: busted windpipe from choke - police brutality?

Postby windwalker on Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:10 am

grzegorz wrote:
More than a month later, the city medical examiner ruled Garner’s death a homicide, noting that the chokehold had contributed to his death. The chokehold is prohibited by New York Police Department policy.


Thus the title of the thread.

http://www.longislandpress.com/2014/12/ ... oke-death/

But that's fine, I gave it a new, better and a more appropriate title.

grzegorz wrote:


interesting how the man getting indicted for filming the police had his video removed.


yep interesting

Despite his contention of a frame-up, Ramsey Orta’s testimony didn’t sway a grand jury, which indicted him on weapon charges, stemming from an Aug. 2 arrest, it was revealed in court Friday.

Orta, 22, who filmed an NYPD officer’s fatal chokehold of Eric Garner last month, pleaded not guilty at his arraignment in state Supreme Court, St. George.
Cops allege Orta stuffed an unloaded .25 caliber handgun into the waistband of Alba Lekaj, 17, outside the Hotel Richmond at 71 Central Ave., St. George, two weeks ago. Officers recovered the weapon, said police.
The defendant contends the charges are trumped up in retaliation for filming the Garner incident on July 17 in Tompkinsville.

Read more at http://thedailybanter.com/2014/12/cours ... OKRPVDU.99


which indicted him on weapon charges, stemming from an Aug. 2 arrest

whoa didnt see that one coming :o

guess after filming he went back to his day job. ;)

the charges are trumped up in retaliation for filming the Garner incident on July 17 in Tompkinsville.

of course they are. ::)

I think whats interesting about all the cases, are the back stories
that tend to help explain what happened over what was thought to have happened, but some how get ignored or disregarded once presented.

In this case.
some felt that he didnt receive med attention soon enough, turns out he died on the way to the hosp, in an ambulance.
many are say he was choked, yet dont look at the pictures with with "trained eyes"
and others feel that a crime, repeat offender should have the right to keep offending. guessing on this :-\

I asked about the 2nd contention feeling that some here would be able to pick apart the different holds, spot
differences in the way that would or not make it a "choke" hold.
no real answers, maybe the "eyes" are not trained enough or it doesn't matter. say it enough, it will make it so.

just as in the MB case, "hands up" now after the evidence doesnt support this narrative, the "people" say it doesnt matter its just a metaphor

in each case presented there is a back drop that never gets put out.
even after its out, seems like doesnt matter.
Last edited by windwalker on Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
rule 19
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 6793
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Next

Return to Off the Topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests