PBS Documentary The Italian Americans

[Steve James]

Ever heard of these guys?

Lega Nord (LN; literal translation: "North League"), whose complete name is Lega Nord per l'Indipendenza della Padania ("North League for the Independence of Padania"), is a regionalist political party in Italy. The party is often referred to as Northern League by English-language media and literature, while in Italy it is also referred to simply as Lega or Carroccio.

Lega Nord was founded in 1991 as a federation of several regional parties of northern and central Italy, most of which had arisen in the 1980s (Lega Lombarda, Liga Veneta, Piemont Autonomista, Uniun Ligure, Lega Emiliano-Romagnola and Alleanza Toscana), plus the newly formed regional parties of the other northern regions.

The party's political programme advocates the transformation of Italy into a federal state, fiscal federalism and greater regional autonomy, especially for the northern regions. At times it has advocated secession of the North, which it calls Padania. Prior to the party's adoption of the term, Padania was infrequently used to name the Po Valley and was promoted since 1963 by sports journalist Gianni Brera as a modern name for Cisalpine Gaul.

[Drake]

Yep. The government is far worse than the "mafia" it pretends to despise. Jobs are handed out for a price in the government. Young people from Naples on down are leaving in droves for jobs elsewhere. There are more Italians, and Sicilians now living elsewhere other than in Italy. It's insane. The government just doesn't care about the future of the country. They have repeatedly shown that they are easily corrupted. There are Sicilians that want to break away because Malta has done so phenomenally well without a standing army, etc. All of Italy's oil resources, etc. have come from Sicily, and the south. There is an area just outside of Rome that speaks a dialect of Italian derived from the French occupation, and they want to secede, also. Don't get me wrong. I love the food. I love the language. I love the history. I love the art. All the stuff that makes the country great I love. I grew up speaking Italian, and have been learning Sicilian for quite a while. However, Italy is probably more effed up than anyone outside of the country realizes. It's one of the most bigoted/biased country's I've ever visited. *The* most corrupt. I say all this, and I'm working on getting my dual citizenship. Insane, right? <<shrug>>

[emptycloud]

There were some things that rang true, and others that were completely foreign to me. My wife comes from an Italian family in Detroit, and I come from a Sicilian family in Chicago. We compared experiences while watching the program(s), and found that none of my wife's experiences were even close to the programs, *or* mine. My perspective is that both coasts were concentrated on, and the interior of the country was largely ignored. There is a lot more to discover, in my opinion. <<shrug>>

what's with the gravatar...?

[Drake]

what's with the gravatar...?

Nothing. <<shrug>>

[emptycloud]

what's with the gravatar...?

Nothing. <<shrug>>

what is it though, rape porn..?

[Drake]

what's with the gravatar...?

Nothing. <<shrug>>

what is it though, rape porn..?

Nope!!! Just a shrug.

[vadaga]

Ever heard of these guys?

Lega Nord (LN; literal translation: "North League"), whose complete name is Lega Nord per l'Indipendenza della Padania ("North League for the Independence of Padania"), is a regionalist political party in Italy. The party is often referred to as Northern League by English-language media and literature, while in Italy it is also referred to simply as Lega or Carroccio.

Lega Nord was founded in 1991 as a federation of several regional parties of northern and central Italy, most of which had arisen in the 1980s (Lega Lombarda, Liga Veneta, Piemont Autonomista, Uniun Ligure, Lega Emiliano-Romagnola and Alleanza Toscana), plus the newly formed regional parties of the other northern regions.

The party's political programme advocates the transformation of Italy into a federal state, fiscal federalism and greater regional autonomy, especially for the northern regions. At times it has advocated secession of the North, which it calls Padania. Prior to the party's adoption of the term, Padania was infrequently used to name the Po Valley and was promoted since 1963 by sports journalist Gianni Brera as a modern name for Cisalpine Gaul.

I would second this- generally speaking it's the north where the Lega (now working with Forza Italia) is strongest, particularly Lombardy and Veneto, talking about splitting from the center and south... (center != south by the way) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Parliament <<---the exact numbers of parliamentary seats are here


On another note I would second Drake's comment that the entire country is hollowed out at this point, Italians are all over Europe as a slightly more upscale and respectable group of migrant workers than people from Eastern Europe and aren't generally considered as being 'migrants' but saying the truth, that's what they are - depressing considering it's the 4th largest economy in the EU but it has bad structural problems. OK yeah people from the rest of the country might consider migrating to Milan first to work but everywhere I've been in Western Europe/British Isles there are tons of Italians working restaurants and office jobs.

Not sure if they have been mentioned but the works of Roberto Saviano are a good one to talk about messed-upness of modern Italy.

Just to be on topic- I read a book about the advent of container shipping called 'The Box' recently which said that Italian-Americans had a fairly strong contingent among the New York/New Jersey longshoremen in the mid 20th century.

Definitely the US Italian diaspora manifested differently in varying regions of the country...bearing in mind too, main wave of Italian immigration to the US was between 150-100 years ago - a lot of stuff has happened in Italy in the meantime that kind of made the diaspora diverge from the nation.

[Drake]

My last thoughts on this topic..... Unless I happen to think of something that's worth a crap. The documentary was deeply flawed, and severely incomplete. There is a sense of separatism that exists in the different regions of Italy even after 150 years that's astounding. Sicily wants to be regarded as a separate country, or become a part of the U.S., even though it has autonomy from Italy, but has never pursued it. Sardegna despises all things that are not Sardegnan, and just wants to be left to it's own devices. I can't speak to anything other than the south where a vast majority of the folks from that country came from. Those of us who have grown up in the culture, the language, the food, etc. see how good we have it if we really think about it. I am a American of Sicilian descent. My wife is a American-Italian. It's the progression of things. Italian's will *not* have change until it comes from within, and even then there will be those who scream for separatism. I have seen that a majority of Sicilian men in Sicily are lazy, and want everything done *for* them. The entire land has a sense of entitlement in my opinion. I see this attitude from a great many 1st, and 2nd generation's among the young. They seem to take far longer to mature, and accept their responsibilities or even *take* responsibility for *anything*. The first order is to give blame to everyone/everything else. <<shrug>> I've seen this type of attitude all too often over the decades. All this being said, however, I find the land of my ancestors calling for me once again. The last time I was there I was 19 years old, and there were still those who were alive during WW2 that regarded Americans as heroes. The south was incredibly friendly, and generous with their time and their hospitality. Times have change. Fascists, separatists, bigots, etc. have made their way into the main stream of the younger generation. Some of it bleeds over to the rest of the Italian community throughout the world. Italy may be the 4th largest economy of the EU, but is still a 3rd world country in many respects. It's corruption is definitely first among the EU. <<shrug>> Off to ramble elsewhere............

[edededed]

Pretty fascinating stuff, guys. To be honest, I didn't know that Italy had these separate cultures, and separate languages - differences like this are interesting for me, but I guess they tend to lead to uncooperation at best, and strife more likely. Fascists, bigots, and the like seem to be the new "in" thing for the 21st century all over the world - maybe young people don't have anything better to do, but it's not the way we should be going!

[vadaga]

Pretty fascinating stuff, guys. To be honest, I didn't know that Italy had these separate cultures, and separate languages - differences like this are interesting for me, but I guess they tend to lead to uncooperation at best, and strife more likely. Fascists, bigots, and the like seem to be the new "in" thing for the 21st century all over the world - maybe young people don't have anything better to do, but it's not the way we should be going!

Italy's also right up there with Japan for 'world's oldest population' and has huge amounts of parasite singles as well

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasite_single

[Drake]

"Parasite Singles", eh? That's one way to look at a populace that has some of the highest unemployment in the world. Another would be to understand that it's a part of the culture to not leave the parents house until the child is capable of purchasing a home, in cash, is married, and is stable. Sounds like a "parasite" to me, too. SMH

[grzegorz]

HBO is showing a documentary on Sinatra's life named Frank Sinatra: All Or Nothing At All.