OBAMA WINS!

[Steve James]

I wouldn't want to be associated with those who have hated the "elites" in history. But, re: Obama, the irony is that he's probably the poorest man/family to get into the White House in its history, adjusted for inflation. He beat the guy with more houses than he can count --but who claimed to represent "Joe the Plumber." And, he'll replace a guy whose family has had two presidents and a few governors, iinm. Oh, and who have some interest in the oil business. Naw, elites and US presidency, gotta make sure that don't happen.

[Walter Joyce]

Like most words elite's meaning can be somewhat fluid from one that is based on meritocracy (and yes, I am an elitist in that sense) to one that justifies classism and aristocracy (not my cup of tea).

If I seem over protective of Obama (which I don't believe I am) it is because he has restored hope in me for the US and for politics, something that was drained from me by the assassinations of JFK, RFK, MLK, done in by Vietnam, Watergate and Nixon, Reagan and Bush I and II.

I find cynicism unnatural as a world view despite bouts of it from time to time, and had no real reason to hope for years as far as our culture and politics went, but with Barack it comes easily. He is an extraordinary person, truly gifted intellectually and in his personal traits. He reminds me of JFK, without the mobster father, extramarital affairs and other baggage that JFK carried.

I am not canonizing our president elect, I just admire the man.

Maybe once I get used to being hopeful again I won't be bothered as much by cynicism.

[C-Hopkins]

Stop hating from the sidelines. Throwing shit from inside cages is reserved for zoo animals.

"from inside cages" is right...

What does "sidelines" mean here anyway?

Anyway, I was just poking fun, but I guess I neglected just how much some of you guys love the man, so I will herewith stop the casual hatin' such as above. Even though I don't usually do these sorts of posts, kind'a like what steelincotton was doing against McCain. I do however reserve the right to express my views about this guy even if they are "negative", such as on this thread.

Characteristics of the "elite"

Fair enough... thanks. I guess what happened to this term is similar to what happened to terms like "liberal", where it became pretty much a curse word...

Oh,I'm sorry Dimitri-

My Bad.

I think I'll take this time out for the first C-Hopkins breakdancing minuite.

I'll be doing this from time to time when things get stupid or too hot.

[Walter Joyce]

More from waking life, as to this thread:

Alex Jones: What a bunch of garbage; liberal, democrat, conservative, republican. It's all there to control you! Two sides of the same coin. Two management teams bidding for control, the CEO job of Slavery, Incorporated! The truth is out there in front of you, but they lay out this buffet of lies. I'm sick of it, and I'm not going to take a bite out of it, do you got me?
Alex Jones: Resistance is not futile, we're gonna win this thing, humankind is too good, we're not a bunch of under-achievers! We're gonna stand up, and we're gonna be human beings. We're going to get fired up about the real things, the things that matter! Creativity, and the dynamic human spirit that refuses to submit.
Man on the Train: Hey, are you a dreamer?
Wiley: Yeah.
Man on the Train: I haven't seen too many around lately. Things have been tough lately for dreamers. They say dreaming is dead, no one does it anymore. It's not dead it's just that it's been forgotten, removed from our language. Nobody teaches it so nobody knows it exists. The dreamer is banished to obscurity. Well, I'm trying to change all that, and I hope you are too. By dreaming, every day. Dreaming with our hands and dreaming with our minds. Our planet is facing the greatest problems it's ever faced, ever. So whatever you do, don't be bored, this is absolutely the most exciting time we could have possibly hoped to be alive. And things are just starting

[steelincotton]

I'm just so darn happy now, I even started playing my guitar again!! I love playing the blues and letting the emotions come out in my playing. I feel like the built-up anger over the Bush administration is finally leaving my body/mind. I really identify with Walter's posts too. I have friends calling me from Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Cali, and everybody is so darn happy, it's one big LOVE FEST!!

Since when did dreaming and having the audacity to "hope" for a better government and a better future/society become a silly/ignorant/idealistic thing? Obama is now "my" president and for the first time in my life I feel like I can say that, and actually believe it might mean something. Let's give the man a break, he's got a mountain of Bush-policy to undo. In fact, I just read (huffington post) that he's already working on overturning over 100 Bush policies in the first six months, and with his pick of Rahm as Chief of Staff, I think he's definitely heading in the right direction. For the first time in a looooong time, we are going to have a president with intellect and judgement over "the guy I want to have a beer with" - The last guy I want running the country is "Joe the Plumber," or the "guy we want to have a beer with" - The republicans of late seem to relish in celebrating mediocrity like Sarah Palin, or "Joe the plumber" over Joe the constitutional "expert" who graduated from Columbia and Harvard Law. They tried to sell intelligence as something anti-American or some kind of elite snobbery, etc. Luckily for us, the people didn't buy it this time. Even still, there is a poll out that 60% of republicans want Sarah Palin to run for president in 2012 - these folks just don't get it and never will. If Sarah Palin is the future of the republican party, I'd like to quote Bush and say, "Bring it On!!" ))))

This is an exciting time in our history, and I for one am extremely hopeful that Obama is going to do some real good, and may even go down as one of the best presidents we've ever had.

[Michael]

Why rephrase my words "fuck up" with "honest mistake"? You wouldn't be trying to trivialize the point? I wasn't saying anything was fair, was I. In fact, I was saying that, in fact, the 2nd Amendment didn't do David Koresh or his followers a damn bit of good. They're dead: that's the fact. Your point was ....

I'm talking about pre-meditated murder and you ask if I'm trivializing? We have totally different view points on this based on different information. You say "they're dead." They're not all dead, I think 17-20 escaped alive. I don't know if the BATF intended to kill them all, but as I see things, the BATF came in with the purpose of killing lots of them, fired first in an ambush at the front door, and when you're taking fire like that with people dropping, you generally assume the people doing the shooting will continue firing, which the BATF did until they ran out of ammunition. The fact that they later shot the rest of them is evidence, some would say proof, of their original intentions. The Davidians defended themselves with their guns and that's why about 20 are still alive. For the 80 who died, they got 51 days of life they wouldn't have otherwise had.

Why don't you talk about the Randy Weaver incident if you think it's a good example? But I'd suggest starting a new thread.

And yes, I am not making any secret about what I think Obama's intentions are, which is also evidenced by whom he just chose as Chief of Staff.

[Steve James]

I'm talking about pre-meditated murder

You're accepting your own conclusion.

Why don't you talk about the Randy Weaver incident if you think it's a good example? But I'd suggest starting a new thread.

You mean rather than talk about Koresh on the "Obama Wins!" thread? Not that I'm really interested in starting a David Koresh thread. Then again, I didn't bring him up. And, for all you've said, I still don't see how the 2nd Amendment worked for him. It would even be nice to start a thread letting us know who else is the gov't is premeditating to murder.