Shooting of the Week

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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby RobP3 on Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:41 am

"One officer fired three times, striking Mr Kinsey in the leg."
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby windwalker on Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:51 am

RobP3 wrote:"One officer fired three times, striking Mr Kinsey in the leg."


got it, shot 3 times in leg ;)

with what? a revolver, a rifle
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:53 am

Its framed as an "officer" with no other descriptions, usually this means non-white


As if that matters to the person shot. As if it being a "non-white" officer says something bad about White officers. As if it has anything to do with the concern about ___ police shooting ____ people for no good reason, regardless of their skin color.

As if we find out it was a "White" (whatever that really means) officer, the idea that these are all media manipulated events will change.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby RobP3 on Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:55 am

Seems quite clear in the article

"In the video, two officers are seen pointing rifles at Mr Kinsey, 47, from behind a patrol car. One fired three times, striking Mr Kinsey in the leg"
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Michael on Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:56 am

windwalker wrote:
RobP3 wrote:"One officer fired three times, striking Mr Kinsey in the leg."


got it, shot 3 times in leg ;)

with what? a revolver, a rifle

Why do you need this spoon fed to you? Do you not know how to read or how to use a search function?

Do you still think it was an accidental discharge?
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby RobP3 on Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:07 am

Michael wrote:
windwalker wrote:
RobP3 wrote:"One officer fired three times, striking Mr Kinsey in the leg."


got it, shot 3 times in leg ;)

with what? a revolver, a rifle

Why do you need this spoon fed to you? Do you not know how to read or how to use a search function?

Do you still think it was an accidental discharge?


Image
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:11 am

Hey, be thankful. The guy is alive. There's a video, but the result will probably be the same as when there were no videos. I could be wrong, but I think there will be some form of financial settlement.

Btw, I could be wrong about this too, but I don't think that the two officers just wanted to kill a Black man. It's true that we don't know enough about the situation to come to any conclusions. But, there's no reason to deny what one sees with one's own eyes. I was under the impression that putting one's hands up indicated compliance. Remember that before BLM, there was "Hands Up, Don't Shoot." Of course, it went the way of many memes.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:26 am

They're so common, I almost didn't read it. But, according to the papers, here's the specifics of the situation.

A North Miami, Fla., caretaker was shot and wounded by police Monday as he tried to retrieve a 23-year-old autistic man who had wandered from a mental-health center into the street , the Miami Herald reports.

Cellphone video released Wednesday shows the caretaker, Charles Kinsey, lying on the ground, with his hands in the air, trying to reason with police officers as they approached Kinsey and his patient, the autistic man.


So, the officers probably thought that he had been trying to mug the boy. When he laid down with his hands up, they feared for his life. I suppose to some it's understandable. That's sad. Don't ask why.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Michael on Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:29 am

Excessive force and too many fatal shootings, as well as severe injuries to unarmed and compliant people, is something that can be dealt with head-on, whereas racial bias is a little more obscure. And the racial bias claim, which although I think is true, well that has counter-claims like those from the Sheriff in Wisconsin, and that argument can go on forever.

Autistic guy with toy truck and therapist on back with hands up ends in shooting leg. I'm gonna say this is a tactical training problem that can be corrected. If this shooting was just a mistake, will the office be indicted? In America, I am just grateful he shot his leg.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Dmitri on Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:41 am

Michael wrote:will the office be indicted?

Proper and fair legal processing of such cases is all we should hope and strive for. Shit will happen no matter what -- as is the case with any human activity -- all we can do is hopefully improve on the "accountability" front. Properly placed and functional cameras on police officers must be a federal law. They are public servants whose job is to uphold the law; there is no reason whatsoever why what they do should be any less in plain view/open to everyone than what bank tellers or grocery store baggers do on their jobs.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby windwalker on Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:14 am

RobP3 wrote:
Do you still think it was an accidental discharge?




I would have thought that someone who claims to teach LEO and such would get it.
guess not :-\

why 3 rounds, why not 5 or 6?

an M16A1 fires 3 round burst in auto mode...

the officer had to have had the safety off being at the ready.
he made a mistake in that he might have also had the selector on auto

to shoot 3 rounds in the same place is not so easy, more so if its done in succession.
he would only have had to pull the trigger once for 3 rounds... why stop at 3? why not just
1 ? because he probably only pulled the trigger once.

he himself didnt know why, suggesting that he might have had his trigger finger resting
on the trigger, a big no no :o you or anyone else working with fire arms would know or should know this.

officers as well as soldiers are trained to shoot center mass, shooting at the legs or arms is not part of the training also suggesting that it was an accidental discharge not something done with intent.

the officers or officer is most likely not white taking the race component out of it.
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby RobP3 on Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:17 am

windwalker wrote:
RobP3 wrote:
Do you still think it was an accidental discharge?


I would have thought that someone who claims to teach LEO and such would get it.
guess not :-\


I didn't write that
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby windwalker on Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:19 am

RobP3 wrote:
windwalker wrote:
RobP3 wrote:
Do you still think it was an accidental discharge?


I would have thought that someone who claims to teach LEO and such would get it.
guess not :-\


I didn't write that



ok my web fu is not so good.. ;)

but my point is that it seems like more of an accidental discharge
then anything else.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:46 am

:) Yeah, well, not a leo, but my first firearm lesson was 1) don't point your weapon at anything you don't plan to shoot, 2) don't put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot.

For anyone trained with firearms in my family would say there is no such thing as a firearms accident. There is only user negligence. If police officers make those type of mistakes and have those type of accidents, that's the best argument ever for gun control (which clearly includes "training" as part of control).
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby windwalker on Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:47 pm

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/c ... 73592.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7SyXsGP_vk

What I find interesting is that there is no mention of the type of weapon the officer used.
Compared to other recent shootings the weapon and the race of the officer is put out either by other sources or the media itself ahead of mainstream news outlets.

"state of mind of the officers arriving on scene"
"wittiness statements there was a gun"
" video that does not convey all facts presented"

Some have remarked on training of the officers, comparing it to their own experiences.
Talking about aiming a weapon why, when, and when not too.

Arriving at the scene of a reported suspect with a weapon. It would seem that they did talk the person down, and waited until the area was clear. In light of some recent ambush attacks I would expect them to be very cautious...

some notes on tactics each dept is different.

officers should draw their weapons and command the suspect to drop their gun and get on the ground. The dialogue that happens between an officer and the suspect is what some experts call the most important aspect of police work.

If the suspect complies, one officer should then search the suspect for any additional weapons while the other officer still has his or her gun drawn. If a concealed weapon is found, officers should place cuffs on the suspect.

Officers should keep their guns in their dominant hand, leaving their other hand free for other actions, including using their radios to call for help. If the suspect doesn't follow orders and makes a threatening movement, that's when an officer must make a split-second decision whether to fire.

Though officers may have less than a second to decide whether to shoot, they need to take various factors into account. They must consider the suspect's size, age, known history of violence or mental disability, availability of weapons and the suspect-officer ratio.

When feasible, officers should warn the suspect that they're going to shoot if they continue to present a threat.

If the suspect points a gun at someone, or reaches for a gun in a way that indicates they're going to shoot, police are allowed to fire.

Police are trained to shoot at "center mass," or a suspect's torso where many vital organs are located.
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