Shooting of the Week

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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:06 pm

There was no gun.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby windwalker on Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:10 pm

The 63-page study, “An Empirical Analysis of Racial Differences in Police Use of Force,” appears to support research conducted at Washington State University showing that officers in simulation tests were actually less likely to shoot at blacks than whites.


The paper also challenges the contention by the new wave of civil-rights groups such as Black Lives Matter that racist police are singling out blacks for shootings.

The findings are nothing if not timely, coming after protests spurred by two deadly incidents earlier this month involving black men shot and killed by police in Louisiana and Minnesota.

Their deaths, which are under review, spurred a sniper attack on police Thursday in Dallas during a Black Lives Matter march that left five officers dead and seven injured.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... vard-prof/

kind of counter to main stream media.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:34 pm

The above has nothing to do with the shooting though, does it?

2) Who cares what the race of the person shot is? Unless, that is, all the whites who were shot (which would be statistically likely since there are more white people anyway) were guilty of something. Like I said before, it doesn't matter to the person being shot what the race of the shooter is. Well, if he's sane.

3) Ahem, so, on one hand, it was an accidental shooting, and the media is playing it up as it always does. On the other hand, it was a reasonable shooting, and the media is making a big thing out of nothing.

4) It'd be interesting to see the number of police who were killed by White people, too.

5) Afa the probability of racial disparity in the use of force, of course it's necessary to consider that the results are numerical, and do not indicate "why" force was used. So, for example,

The Guardian newspaper runs its own database, The Counted, which tracked US killings by police and other law enforcement agencies in 2015, and counted 1140 killed, with rates per million of 2.92 for "white" people, 7.2 for "black", and 3.5 for "hispanic/latino", 1.34 for "Asian/Pacific Islander", and 3.4 for "Native American". The database can be viewed by state, gender (1086 male, 53 female, 1 nonconforming) , race/ethnicity, age, classification (e.g., "gunshot"), and whether the person killed was armed (853 armed, 224 unarmed).[6] The database has continued to add new cases into 2016.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_k ... ates,_2014

The numbers show that Black, Latino and Native Americans are killed more frequently than Whites. However, there are fewer Whites than the others. I worked for a statistical organization (the one that makes up the SATs, etc), and there's always been a question why certain groups don't do as well on standardized tests. That is, certain questions seem to give certain people problems. We'd call that a "differential item function." The item is the question, and the differential function is the fact that Asians get more answers correct than Whites. :) That's a true joke because, though absolutely true, absolutely nobody makes anything of it. Rather, we'd measure the DIF of responses between Blacks and Whites. Btw, I chose 2014 because there were a high number of police killings. But, the point of that little essay is that, the numbers show a statistical difference in the percentage of Whites killed and the number of others killed. Arguing that this difference is or isn't "racial" really isn't the point. If the percentage of White killed were the same as the percentage of others, I'm sure there would be complaints. Race may not be the reason for the difference, but then what is?
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby windwalker on Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:46 pm

The above has nothing to do with the shooting though, does it?


of course not ;)

hands up dont shoot....yep
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:59 pm

Duh, here's "the truth" as told by the head of the relevant police union.

MIAMI-DADE POLICE UNION PRESIDENT JOHN RIVERA MOTIONS AS TO HOW AN AUTISTIC MAN MADE A COP BELIEVE HE WAS ABOUT TO KILL ANOTHER MAN WITH A TOY TRUCK
It took less than 24 hours for a police union president to spin the story of how a North Miami police officer shot a man with his hands in the air.

The cop was actually trying to kill the autistic man holding the toy truck in order to prevent him from killing his caretaker with the toy truck.

At the time, the cop was still under the impression that the toy truck was a gun, so he wasn’t taking any chances.

This despite the fact that caretaker Charles Kinsey had repeatedly told officers that it was a toy truck.

“The movement of the white individual looked like he was getting ready to discharge a firearm into Mr. Kinsey,” said Miami-Dade police union boss John Rivera in a press conference today, attended by WSVN.

And the officer discharged trying to strike and stop the white male and unfortunately, he missed.”

Rivera went on to slam the media for reporting on this story.

“Be responsible in your reporting,” Rivera said in the press conference.

“We’re asking the community to please allow facts — not sensationalism, not politics — facts to allow to work their way through the system.”

But how about being responsible for who you shoot? Is that too much to ask?

The officer’s name has not been released, but he will probably be hailed a hero for trying to protect the caretaker, maybe even receive an award.

Although part of the incident was captured on cell phone video, it does not appear that the actual shooting was captured, which allowed Rivera to create his own scenario.

After all, the video that we did see shows the autistic man making no such movement.

Below is Rivera’s entire spin job in a video recorded by the Miami Herald.

https://photographyisnotacrime.com/2016 ... 0Caretaker

This means that the officer missed three times and accidentally hit the person he was trying to save. Hey, it's another plausible version. The officer was trying to kill the autistic White guy who was attacking a Black guy. It was only a little ooops.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Michael on Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:17 pm

I told you guys that was a particularly vicious toy truck transformer that could turn into a potato gun. I would have just shot both of them for safety's sake.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:19 am

Aw, c'mon, don't taze me bro ;)

This case is classic because it illustrates so many issues. People argue that one should comply, but if they still get shot, the police argue that they were following procedure. If the victim has any prior criminal record, being shot was deserved. If he didn't, he was just the victim of the fact that more people like him have prior criminal records. There's no way he can escape that, though.

No matter somebody on the youtube might say-- millions of people are shaking their heads in disbelief that people believe this officer was trying to save the life of the person who got shot. Yeah, it's plausible. Well, until it's found that he was holding his hands up and explaining to the officers that he was trying to save his client. Oh, and then they flipped him over and handcuffed him just to make sure he was safe. Yeah, we get it. It could be an honest mistake, even if it means people are ok with an officer shooting an autistic guy with a toy truck. Imho, at minimum, it would mean that the officer needs more training and time at the range.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:53 am

It's just youtube. But, it can be checked. Naw, it's not about shooting, or race. It's about trust.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwhEWuahg-w
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby grzegorz on Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:23 pm

I never imagined that people would actually debate whether or not that shooting was actually justified.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby windwalker on Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:01 pm

grzegorz wrote:I never imagined that people would actually debate whether or not that shooting was actually justified.


I never imagined that some one who wanted to be an officer, would think that most would or should know what was "justified" or not according to police dept standards...

Or do you feel most would understand what is meant by "justified" in the sense of the word used in a police investigation setting.

an example of an expected outcome, with out understanding due process.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k6lpJJ8wAk
Last edited by windwalker on Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:22 pm

Yep, a guy is hog-tied and thrown into a police van. He arrives dead at the station. That obviously explains "due process" when it comes to a guy laying the street with his hands up.

I think we could call that dyslogic.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby KEND on Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:53 pm

Shooting in Munich
Hmm lot of karma left over there from the thirties
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby grzegorz on Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:03 pm

Yeah Wind, I was interested in law enforcement and upon closer examination I realized it wasn't for me but as I recall the way ot works is that not everyone gets through the police academy, in fact they try to weed out people who shoot innocent people. In the end police are public servants and I would have been happy to have served but I also know that they drill these scenarios into the police to the point where I am not surprised that these accidents happen because they'll tel them you didn't shoot so an officer is down. In fact I don't blame the police as much as the way they're trained. If police had to study for three years and pass an exam like a lawyer I think most of these things wouldn't happen to the extent that they do. Unfortunately though in a lot of states the police academy is a joke so I am not surprised that these things happen and that these police had no idea how to deal with a scenario involving an autistic person.
Last edited by grzegorz on Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:49 pm

in fact they try to weed out people who shoot innocent people.


They're supposed to weed out those people. But, to be fair, 90% of officers never discharge their weapons. It's not just about the training.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3hAVT2sDqQ
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby windwalker on Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:22 pm

@G,

thanks for your response,

I was hoping that you would help to make it more clear that the perception of what is filmed is not always what happened as shown by number of high profile cases that didn't go the way the news media hyped it to be. There are a number of other shootings that dont fit the narrative not reported or are under reported dont make the national news.

Laws concerning officer shootings are not always as clear as one would think...the media and those that profit from it have a lot to do with peoples perceptions of what should be vs according to rule of law that they are held to...

Having had to work in jobs where fire arms were required there was a host of things that one would not normally think about that if acted on could be used against one in a court of law.

As far as the training goes, 3 yrs is a little long IMO.
Last edited by windwalker on Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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