Shooting of the Week

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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby grzegorz on Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:44 pm

It probably is, I was using the Dutch model.

I understand partly where you are coming from. I hear people ask why they don't shoot the leg but the fact is they always shoot to kill.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby windwalker on Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:48 pm

grzegorz wrote:It probably is, I was using the Dutch model.

I understand partly where you are coming from. I hear people ask why they don't shoot the leg but the fact is they always shoot to kill.


I thought it was to stop the threat and to shoot center mass....
maybe I was mistaken...
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Michael on Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:20 pm

windwalker wrote:I was hoping that you would help to make it more clear that the perception of what is filmed is not always what happened as shown by number of high profile cases that didn't go the way the news media hyped it to be. There are a number of other shootings that dont fit the narrative not reported or are under reported dont make the national news.

Laws concerning officer shootings are not always as clear as one would think...the media and those that profit from it have a lot to do with peoples perceptions of what should be vs according to rule of law that they are held to...

Having had to work in jobs where fire arms were required there was a host of things that one would not normally think about that if acted on could be used against one in a court of law.

What is this now, three years, four years you've been beating around the bush, refusing or incapable of saying something. What is it? Did you shoot someone and you feel guilty about it so you sympathize with the police? Your brother-in-law did? What?

Or deep down you've got some issues about race and you're angry that when white people are brutalized by the cops it doesn't get the attention of Rodney King?

Or both?

This
There are a number of other shootings that dont fit the narrative not reported or are under reported dont make the national news.

is gibberish.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Michael on Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:24 pm

Steve James wrote:
in fact they try to weed out people who shoot innocent people.


They're supposed to weed out those people. But, to be fair, 90% of officers never discharge their weapons. It's not just about the training.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3hAVT2sDqQ

When I grew up in Dallas, there were some cops, not many, who literally put notches on their service revolvers for each "person" they shot. There was a recognizable trend regarding the pattern of differential pigmentation between the shooters and the shootees.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby windwalker on Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:55 pm

Michael wrote:When I grew up in Dallas, there were some cops, not many, who literally put notches on their service revolvers for each "person" they shot. There was a recognizable trend regarding the pattern of differential pigmentation between the shooters and the shootees.


gots to have a bogyman 8-)

I call BS on the shit you just wrote. Prove it

as for issues,,,ya better check yourself I think you might have some of that privilege shit they talk about going on...living in China....

An analysis released last week shows that more white people died at the hands of law enforcement than those of any other race in the last two years, even as the Justice Department, social-justice groups and media coverage focus on black victims of police force.


I just note what seems to be either an omission or a narrative that seems to be being promoted here with out another view to balance it against.
Last edited by windwalker on Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:03 pm

Don't be frustrated, Mike. Often one has to dig out what someone means from the words he or she writes. Sometimes, though, the meaning becomes clearer by reading the absences and spaces "in between the lines." Back in the day, they called it "deconstruction." In short, the words are bricks, and the meaning is the glue. Culture, circumstances, conditioning and other things create that glue.

Anyway, people recognize when the glue becomes its own code. Hence, "inner city," "urban," "hoodie," and "police" are more than words. Even sayings like "America First" and "Make America One" have different meanings to different people. It's just like that here ;) Try substituting Germany or Iran in those phrases, and I'll bet opinions may differ on how "good" and "right" those concepts are.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Michael on Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:06 pm

windwalker wrote:
An analysis released last week shows that more white people died at the hands of law enforcement than those of any other race in the last two years, even as the Justice Department, social-justice groups and media coverage focus on black victims of police force.


I just note what seems to be either an omission or a narrative that seems to be being promoted here with out another view to balance it against.

An omission? Like that silly shit you tried to pull on Rob3, where you play dumb like you can't read the article posted that said it was a rifle because you think you're the only clever person who knows that an M16-A2 has a 3 round burst?

You imply that you're the only person who can imagine the scenario of an accidental discharge with an M16-A2 in burst mode with one trigger pull, play stupid (don't have to go far for that one in your case), be a pain in the ass troll, and then insult someone because you think if they claimed to have firearms knowledge they should have been able to solve the mystery that you imagine you're the only one bright enough to figure out.

Well Einstein, you fell flat on your face on that one and every time you're "played" dumb to reveal these omissions that you totally fail to understand. You're a troll.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Michael on Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:08 pm

Steve James wrote:Don't be frustrated, Mike. Often one has to dig out what someone means from the words he or she writes. Sometimes, though, the meaning becomes clearer by reading the absences and spaces "in between the lines." Back in the day, they called it "deconstruction." In short, the words are bricks, and the meaning is the glue. Culture, circumstances, conditioning and other things create that glue.

Anyway, people recognize when the glue becomes its own code. Hence, "inner city," "urban," "hoodie," and "police" are more than words. Even sayings like "America First" and "Make America One" have different meanings to different people. It's just like that here ;) Try substituting Germany or Iran in those phrases, and I'll bet opinions may differ on how "good" and "right" those concepts are.

;)
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Michael on Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:36 pm

windwalker wrote:
Michael wrote:When I grew up in Dallas, there were some cops, not many, who literally put notches on their service revolvers for each "person" they shot. There was a recognizable trend regarding the pattern of differential pigmentation between the shooters and the shootees.


gots to have a bogyman 8-)

I call BS on the shit you just wrote. Prove it

Good on you for defending the police. Just don't be such a smug, passive-aggressive pussy about it and act like no one here understands the training issue or departmental policy.

After some vicious beat-downs and shootings by Dallas police in the early 80's, I saw a local news report on TV that featured one of the cops who notches his gun.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:37 pm

Okay, more White people are shot by White officers than any other group. That is a raw number that should be expected. (Of course, when people talk about crime, they revert to discussions of proportions and percentages). So, if someone wants to argue that the number of White people shot by police is greater than the number of Blacks, he should also point out that the number of White people convicted of crimes is also greater. Of course, he will then revert to the use of percentages and explain that, "proportionately," Blacks commit more crimes.

I have to agree somewhat about the media, but why not complain about the number of people being shot? Aren't FOX and ABC (CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, etc) owned by White people? Even if Black people are just whiners, they don't control the media or the internet. Putting everything in black and white terms supports a false dichotomy that earns ratings. However, get used to Black people complaining when they're shot with their hands up attempting to comply.

And, the media does tend to emphasize stories that support popular perceptions. For ex., when it comes to drugs ...
When It Comes To Illegal Drug Use, White America Does The Crime, Black America Gets The Time

White Americans are more likely than black Americans to have used most kinds of illegal drugs, including cocaine, marijuana and LSD. Yet blacks are far more likely to go to prison for drug offenses.

This discrepancy forms the backdrop of a new legislative proposal in California, which aims to reduce the disproportionate incarceration of black people in the state. Supporters of the bill, SB 649, point to some striking national data.

Nearly 20 percent of whites have used cocaine, compared with 10 percent of blacks and Latinos, according to a 2011 survey from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration — the most recent data available.

Higher percentages of whites have also tried hallucinogens, marijuana, pain relievers like OxyContin, and stimulants like methamphetamine, according to the survey. Crack is more popular among blacks than whites, but not by much.

Still, blacks are arrested for drug possession more than three times as often as whites, according to a 2009 report from the advocacy group Human Rights Watch.

Of the 225,242 people who were serving time in state prisons for drug offenses in 2011, blacks made up 45 percent and whites comprised just 30 percent, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics.

Jamie Fellner, author of the Human Rights Watch report, offered an explanation for this discrepancy.

“The race issue isn’t just that the judge is going, ‘Oh, black man, I’m gonna sentence you higher,’” she said. “The police go into low-income minority neighborhoods and that’s where they make most of their drug arrests. If they arrest you, now you have a ‘prior,’ so if you plead or get arrested again, you’re gonna have a higher sentence. There’s a kind of cumulative effect.”

Lawmakers in California hope to blunt that effect. Last week, both houses of the state legislature passed SB 649, which would give judges and prosecutors the option of charging people convicted of drug offenses with misdemeanors instead of felonies. Those offenders could then be sent to substance abuse treatment centers instead of prison or jail.

Supporters of the bill, including its author, state Sen. Mark Leno (D-San Francisco), note that black adults represent one-quarter of all felony drug arrests in California, despite comprising just 5 percent of the state population.

“One can take it to conspiratorial or racist theories or not,” Leno told HuffPost. “The motivation I don’t think needs to be determined. The results are the same: Our policy and lawmaking perpetuate a chronic underclass of citizens.”

Former prisoners who were convicted of felonies often face steep official barriers to “the very things that are needed to keep one successful in recovery,” he added — namely, education, housing and employment.

The federal government can deny public housing assistance to anyone who has been convicted of a felony drug offense. Students who have been convicted of drug possession are barred from receiving federal financial aid and substantial education tax credits. And employers often require applicants to disclose their criminal histories, despite a growing nationwide movement to ban that practice.

Not all drug offenses in California automatically result in felony charges. Methamphetamine, LSD and certain other drugs are known as “wobblers,” meaning that possession of those drugs can be charged as a felony or a misdemeanor. The new bill would basically extend this “wobbler” approach to heroin, cocaine and most other drugs. Blacks use heroin and cocaine more than they use meth and LSD, which are primarily used by whites.

In recent years, states from New York to Texas have adopted reforms that resemble SB 649, and leaders across the political spectrum have pushed for changes to the country’s drug sentencing policies. In August, Attorney General Eric Holder announced that the Justice Department would no longer pursue mandatory minimum sentences for certain low-level drug offenders, citing “shameful” racial disparities in the criminal justice system.

Yet some drug reform advocates worry that Gov. Jerry Brown (D) might not sign the California measure, noting that he has often seemed reluctant to embrace progressive criminal justice policies.

Like other reforms aimed at reducing California’s prison population, SB 649 could help relieve the state’s budgetary woes, supporters say. Drug sentencing policies are widely blamed for the enormous size and costs of the country’s prison systems. And few prison systems are bigger or more expensive than California’s.

At the height of America’s war on drugs, from the 1980s through the mid-2000s, more than 20 prisons opened in California, compared with just 12 between 1852 and 1984. California’s prison population increased more than fivefold in the later decades, and prisons now cost the state’s taxpayers close to $10 billion a year.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/1 ... 41346.html

Of course, there's a monetary element to this, in the form of private prisons, bondsmen, fines, etc., that support a lot of people economically.
Last edited by Steve James on Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Michael on Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:47 pm

Steve James wrote:However, get used to Black people complaining when they're shot with their hands up attempting to comply.

He was lying on his back, tho'. Just because he did what the police told him doesn't mean that it was enough, right? You've got to separate yourself from the common herd, go that extra mile, hog tie yourself and then flip yourself onto your stomach if you really want to survive. That's my advice.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby windwalker on Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:26 pm

Michael wrote:
windwalker wrote:
Michael wrote:When I grew up in Dallas, there were some cops, not many, who literally put notches on their service revolvers for each "person" they shot. There was a recognizable trend regarding the pattern of differential pigmentation between the shooters and the shootees.


gots to have a bogyman 8-)

I call BS on the shit you just wrote. Prove it

Good on you for defending the police. Just don't be such a smug, passive-aggressive pussy about it and act like no one here understands the training issue or departmental policy.

After some vicious beat-downs and shootings by Dallas police in the early 80's, I saw a local news report on TV that featured one of the cops who notches his gun.


always ends up as an attack. nice, almost text book ;)

lets start by I dont defend the police. I do question and try to understand view points which seem very different then my own.
If presented with facts in a rational way I would and have changed my views,,,I do look at both sides

As far as the M16A1 ect.... It was not clear to me at the time as to the type of weapon or rifle, and no one here asked or mentioned it.

sure many might know of the burst 3 shot...but did not ask about why 3 shots
why not more? The focus seems to be on some officer shooting at someone intentionally. I don't buy it...

They came expecting to find someone as reported with a weapon. In light of whats going on now with ambushes
I would expect that any officer would be very circumspect in their encounters in this situation.

From what I've read so far very little is mentioned about the type of rifle used,,,why?
The police chief is Black, which means there will be no one asking about investigating the dept itself.

The officer was or is not white, the way it gets reported is different from jump.
Instead of condemnation people are asked to wait and try to see what happened

Rivera offered an explanation Thursday, saying that the police officer opened fire because he thought the white individual, whom they later learned is a man with autism, was going to harm Kinsey.
"This wasn't a mistake in the sense that the officer shot the wrong guy or he thought that Kinsey was the bad guy," he said in a press conference Thursday.

"The movement of the white individual made it look like he was going to discharge a fire arm into Mr. Kinsey and the officer discharged trying to strike and stop the white man and unfortunately, he missed the white male and shot Mr. Kinsey by accident."
Rivera said that the video footage of the incident was "being portrayed poorly."


It would seem that it was intentional, but he missed....this is troubling considering it was a rifle.

North Miami police said the officer opened fire after attempting to negotiate. Kinsey and his attorney said that the police explanation doesn't add up. State authorities said they're investigating the incident.

The unidentified officer has been placed on administrative leave and he issued a statement in form of a text message, which was read aloud to the media by Rivera.

"I took this job to save lives and help people," according to the officer's text statement. "I did what I had to do in a split-second to accomplish that, and hate to hear others paint me as something I'm not."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/21/us/miami- ... -shooting/

"Thursday, saying that the police officer opened fire because he thought the white individual, whom they later learned is a man with autism, was going to harm Kinsey."

one guy has a name, the other is just white.

The officer is just an officer,,,its reported different.
If the officer happened to be white. It would be reported as the white officer.

The officer obviously made a mistake, how he is charged even if he is charged will depend on what is presented
it may or may not correspond to peoples understanding of what a threat is, or is not....

no I don't automatically support the officers...it would seem that here its a given that there is only one, explanation
for why things happen and can be no other.

update

North Miami city manager Larry M. Spring said Officer Jonathan Aledda is responsible for mistakenly shooting Charles Kinsey while the therapist rushed to the aid of his troubled patient.


Retired firearms expert Robert Hoelscher, who spent 50 years with the Miami-Dade Police Department, said it’s hard to perceive how the situation was misjudged, but it was — grossly.

“I wish there was something positive I could say. You arrive on scene and a guy’s playing with a toy truck. Why do you bring out the assault rifle?” Hoelscher asked. “You can’t get enough training when you’re dealing with lethal force. This is as bad a situation as I’ve ever seen. It’s a good thing he was obviously a lousy marksman.

Rivera, at the end of his press conference Thursday, read from a statement he said was from Aledda.

“I took this job to save lives and help people,” the officer said. “I did what I had to do in a split second to accomplish that and hate to hear others paint me as something that I’m not.”


Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/c ... rylink=cpy
Last edited by windwalker on Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Michael on Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:59 pm

windwalker wrote:always ends up as an attack. nice, almost text book ;)

lets start by I dont defend the police. I do question and try to understand view points which seem very different then my own.
If presented with facts in a rational way I would and have changed my views,,,I do look at both sides

Does it really always end up as an attack? Are you always the victim because you are the only person "making note of omissions" that no one else understands?

Maybe you think you're under attack because you refuse to listen to years, literally years of multiple people giving you feedback about the way you post coming off like a troll, and that much of what you say makes no sense, and also that you constantly contradict yourself.

You say you'll stay out of this thread and other threads, but here you are.

You say you are not here to share your opinion with other members or to hear theirs, you don't care if anyone agrees or disagree with you, but you're not defending the police in this thread.

That's the text book definition of a troll.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby wiesiek on Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:34 am

some oil on the waves,
In the case - if this thread covers not only US shooting -

Munich moll ...
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:43 am

wiesiek wrote:some oil on the waves,
In the case - if this thread covers not only US shooting -

Munich moll ...


Afa Munich, https://www.google.com/amp/www.bbc.co.u ... /36874497#

And we have had school and shopping center shootings every week here. Almost never by Muslims or recent immigrants.
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