The Russians did it.

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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby windwalker on Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:15 am

Michael wrote:This article from August discusses Western war propaganda in general and against Russia specifically, and I think its facts are solid in regards to the USA/NATO wars of the past 30 years, and its conclusions about the current demonization of Assad and Putin resonate very strongly with me.

http://johnpilger.com/articles/provoking-nuclear-war-by-media


All but a fraction of America's vaunted "precision guided" missiles hit not military but civilian targets, including the news studios of Radio Television Serbia in Belgrade. Sixteen people were killed, including cameramen, producers and a make-up artist. Blair described the dead, profanely, as part of Serbia's "command and control". In 2008, the prosecutor of the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia, Carla Del Ponte, revealed that she had been pressured not to investigate Nato's crimes.

This was the model for Washington's subsequent invasions of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and, by stealth, Syria. All qualify as "paramount crimes" under the Nuremberg standard; all depended on media propaganda. While tabloid journalism played its traditional part, it was serious, credible, often liberal journalism that was the most effective - the evangelical promotion of Blair and his wars by the Guardian, the incessant lies about Saddam Hussein's non-existent weapons of mass destruction in the Observer and the New York Times, and the unerring drumbeat of government propaganda by the BBC in the silence of its omissions.


It is sad how they use the same tactics over and over again which tend to be questioned after the fact.

Former prosecutor of the International Criminal Tribunal for Yugoslavia (ICTY), Carla Del Ponte, published her memoir 'The Hunt: Me and War Criminals' in 2008.

Del Ponte argues that the US and the UK pressured her not to investigate the 1999 NATO bombing of Serbia and Kosovo. Both of these countries were worried that Del Ponte would reveal that the alleged genocide against ethnic Albanians by the Serbs, with was the underlying reason for the NATO member states to bomb Serbia and Kosovo, did not take place. (Information Clearing House)

https://www.globalpolicy.org/internatio ... lavia.html


Del Ponte would reveal that the alleged genocide against ethnic Albanians by the Serbs, with was the underlying reason for the NATO member states to bomb Serbia and Kosovo, did not take place


did not take place :-\
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby grzegorz on Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:53 pm

I hate to tell you guys but the exoneration of Slobodan Milosevic is all false.

The story or myth was carried by RT and Serbian politician and media by in an attempt to rewrite history.

FWIW I posted the Death of Yugoslavia in OT years ago and I highly recommend it. The war is very complex and although I can understand both sides I don't see any point in trying deny what was done by either side.

Holocaust deniers have done the same I am not surprised to see other attempt the same
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby grzegorz on Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:07 pm

Here is one article with the facts. You won't find many articles and it wasn't covered by the West, CNN and BBC as the article States because it didn't happen.

Slobodan Milosevic is no hero - Al Jazeera English

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinio ... 08287.html
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby grzegorz on Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:12 pm

Here is part 1 of the documentary for those interested in what really happened in Yugoslavia.

https://youtu.be/M_PzsfXbyAw
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby grzegorz on Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:25 pm

On the website of International Court of Justice there are no new entries on Milosevic. The last entry is from 2009.

http://www.icj-cij.org/search/index.php ... &lg=2&op=0
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby Michael on Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:32 pm

Thanks, Greg. Don't know much about Milosevic, so I'll check that out.
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby grzegorz on Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:40 pm

I think you would enjoy it. They do a good job of not painting people as good guys or bad guys and it seems to be made shortly after the war because it is full of interviews with all the major players.

I definitely need to watch again. To be honest it's unfortunate that they weren't capable of holding the country together (through diplomacy of course).
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby grzegorz on Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:38 am

By the way, I don't disagree that the United States is an aggressive country. We're currently sending tomahawk missiles into Yemen and no one knows why or cares or is talking about it.
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby windwalker on Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:08 pm


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=751e6GHk3Us

if you can get past his presentation style
he does package and brings to light many aspects in one place
in a time line leading to the present.
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby Michael on Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:22 pm

windwalker wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=751e6GHk3Us

if you can get past his presentation style
he does package and brings to light many aspects in one place
in a time line leading to the present.

I can't watch more than one minute now, but in the second debate Hillary's said she wanted a no-fly zone and safe zone and that was extremely disturbing. I think Russia has been replying to this talk recently by saying their Western partners would perhaps be surprised at the range of their missile and air defense systems, and of course they have been moving S-200, S-300 and S-400 into Syria and their naval base.

Obviously, after the catastrophe of the Libyan no-fly zone, as well as Iraq, but whatever, neither China nor Russia are going to be hoodwinked again into a UNSC resolution for a no-fly zone, so this would be a purely NATO operation, but now that Turkey has made up with Russia, is that possible for a NATO operation out of Incirklik? So then would it be a purely US no-fly zone? Well, Russia is moving its aircraft carrier into the Mediterranean, so....

If Clinton were elected and tried a no-fly zone, it would basically be a declaration of war against Russia, Iran, Syria and Lebanon, and possibly Iraq. But I do think she's stupid enough to do it, so I agree with Molyneaux there, and it's weird that the only good thing out of Trump's mouth is to try and have good relations with Russia, but the truth is the truth, even when he says it.
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby grzegorz on Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:43 pm

Well they have tried that already and obviously Russian's goal is to completely stabilize the Assad regime by going after any groups who are not loyal to Assad while the US or Trump wants to go after IS. I don't see how that's going to work we've been trying that already and when there was the truce the Russians bombed an aid convoy.

Now I am not trying to demonize the Russians but the fact is our interests are not the same and I think it's clear that the Russians don't need the US to fulfill their mission and on top of that why align with a country or countries bombing and killing civilians in Aleppo?

Keep in mind that the US has criticized the Assad regime's treatment of civilians. So we're supposed to all be frienemies now? And forgive the barrel bombing, chemical weapons and the Russian invasion of Eastern Ukraine because Sunnis chose to fight oppresssion and turn to IS after Assad kills over 200,000 of them. If I were a Syrian Sunnis I too would sympathize with IS.

I am not saying the US not guilty of atrocities but the US does try harder to avoid civilian casualties and has been criticized by the military itself for doing so.

Keep in mind Trump also says that IS is going to try to take over the US. I am not convinced he clearly understands what's happening there.

All things being equal IS is on the retreat in both Syria and Iraq so whenever the new president steps in what was IS may have already changed names and become something else altogether.

Personally I don't know why someone living in Gary, Indiana would even be so concerned about IS that it would determine their vote. If anything anyone should know it's that you can't control what happens in these countries.

I am more curious to find out what the next president's views are on a Kurdistan because I believe it's what is after IS that is the real issue.
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby grzegorz on Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:32 am

windwalker wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=751e6GHk3Us

if you can get past his presentation style
he does package and brings to light many aspects in one place
in a time line leading to the present.


Thanks, I am actually listening to this very podcast to understand both sides.

All things being equal the idea that Hillary as president means war with Russia is a bit of a stretch isn't it? These scenarios seem to put the full responsibility of WWIII on the US as it Putin were a saint only wanting world peace. It kind of reminds me of the world blaming the US for 9-11.

I appreciate the recommendation though. Dude is pretty right wing but actually a refreshing change for a Canadian. ;)
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby grzegorz on Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:40 am

Interesting how Russia is saying if Americans elect Hillary it's war yet it would seem the US is aggressor?

Sorry Putin but it looks like they're is going to be a war because despite the podcast downplaying Trump's comments and treatment of women most Americans don't want to go through the Monica/Bill scandal that we all had to suffer through 20 years ago and I can't blame them.

Speaking of which, since we're discussing the podcast even without these ladies coming out and the Access Hollywood recording Trump's general treatment of people is reason enough not to want this man in the White House.

Perhaps if Putin respected the political process of other countries humanity would have a chance at survival.

Hillary Clinton brings the real threat of war, not Donald Trump, according to Vladimir Putin, as election news has Russia gearing up for a possible attack. Hillary’s image as a war hawk is lost on mainstream American voters, but Russia, Europe, and other nations saw a not-so-warm-and-fuzzy side of Hillary when she was Secretary of State, and the contents of Mrs. Clinton’s intercepted emails has not served to soothe their fears.

http://www.inquisitr.com/3225440/hillar ... male-face/
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby wiesiek on Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:51 am

grzegorz wrote:By the way, I don't disagree that the United States is an aggressive country. We're currently sending tomahawk missiles into Yemen and no one knows why or cares or is talking about it.


they was aimed on Islamic BokoHaram camps, as I heard official message .
Have no access to the satellites records , so don`t know for sure ;)
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby Steve James on Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:36 am

Hmm, people seem to have forgotten the calls to "take their oil fields," "target their women and children," and not take using nukes off the table "or what do we have th my for?". Basing who to vote for based on speculation about Russian intentions is a strange idea. The Republican and Trump have criticized Obama for being to weak. This situation calls to mind appeasement, not better relations.

Anyway, ask the Red Cross, Doctors without borders or Amnesty International for their opinions about the problems and solutions for Syria.
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