The Russians did it.

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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby grzegorz on Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:56 pm

Steve James wrote:Who is threatening a war with whom for what reason again?


Apparently Hillary is a war hawk (which supposedly all Europeans agree on) and an alcoholic and since she celebrated when Omar Khadaffi was killed she wants a war with Russia because she takes money from George Soros who funded the Maiden protests in Ukraine. Also apparently women want Hillary and men want Trump at which point I couldn't take anymore. His logic was that Trump cares about keeping peace because men send men to war and Hillary is a heartless witch.
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby Steve James on Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:54 pm

Ah, so the argument is that she "wants" a war with Russia. Ok. Trump doesn't. OK. Well, fact is, unless NATO dissolves, there's a mutual defense pact. So, it'd be Russia against NATO. In fact, that why there are regular NATO games. It's understandable that Europeans feel that Hillary (and most of their own politicians) are hawkish or eager to use military force. Otoh, most of those who like Trump see him as a "strongman" who wouldn't be reluctant to use force, even nukes. Trump derides Clinton (and Obama) as weak. But, whatever.

Nobody would win a WW3, btw. Trump asks why we have nukes if we won't use them. But, that was the point: mutually assured destruction: MAD. Consequently, by "war" I would suspect that the Russians are talking about conflicts in proxy states. I.e., we (the US) would supply weapons to people who were in the way of Russian interests. Yes, it could be a good deal for us to allow Russia to regain all the territory lost after the breakup of the USSR. As you say, what will the Poles say? I also think it important to remember that Britain, France, Germany, Holland, etc., are our NATO allies. What if they decide that something Russia does is too much, while Trump is pres?

That said, I don't think that it's necessary for Russia to be an enemy. It is a competitor. Putin is promoting his interests, not those of the US, ever. And his interests may or may not align with ours --without us being evil.

Btw, in the past 3 years, the strongest advocates for Syrian no-fly zones were the Republicans, specifically John McCain.

Aw shoot, I forgot. Trump is not fond of NATO. Hmmm.
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby Mr_Wood on Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:51 pm

ffs, now duterte is jumping in on the action

http://www.vice.com/en_au/read/rodrigo- ... ign=global
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby Steve James on Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:45 pm

Greg, for example:
BRUSSELS — European Union leaders pledged early Friday to keep all options open to respond to any atrocities committed by President Bashar Assad's regime and his Russian backers in Syria but stopped short of threatening Moscow with sanctions.

Despite strong rhetoric against Russia's military actions in Syria, notably in aiding regime attacks on the besieged city of Aleppo, the leaders failed to agree on a tough joint statement sending a clear message to Moscow that it could face punitive measures.

As they debated ways to take a unified approach toward President Vladimir Putin, Russian warships steamed toward the English Channel on their way to the Mediterranean, bound for the waters off Syria, watched by NATO navies.

"Russia's strategy is to weaken the EU," said European Council President Donald Tusk, after chairing the first day of a two-day summit in Brussels.

Tusk said the EU leaders strongly condemned attacks on civilians by the Syrian regime and its backers, led by Russia, called for a lasting ceasefire declared and stands ready to consider "all available options if these atrocities continue."

French President Francois Hollande said "the aim, during this crucial time of ceasefire in Aleppo, is to find a path toward talks and negotiations, and to bring an end to the atrocities that we have witnessed for too long."

"If there are any more atrocities, all options would be considered," he said, without specifically mentioning the word sanctions.

One of the fundamental reasons for the EU's internal divisions over dealing with Putin is economic. Unlike the United States, the EU depends on Russia for much of its energy, and as a major market for its exports.

Due to EU sanctions and the retaliatory measures imposed by Russia, trade between Hungary and Russia dropped by nearly half in 2015. Italy and Slovakia, which now holds the rotating EU presidency, also have been reluctant to back harsher sanctions.

"We have approved a document that recalls the need to get as quickly as possible to an agreement, to a real truce and to a political transition process that we have been awaiting for a while. But I think that there is no point in also adding here a reference to sanctions," Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi said in the early hours of Friday.

The leaders had hoped to hold broader talks about Russia ties without the issue of sanctions weighing over them, as they have in the past most notably over Russia's actions in Ukraine and its annexation of Crimea.

However, the siege of Aleppo and increasing civilian casualties in Syria meant that punitive measures were being considered once again, however cautiously.

Earlier Thursday, as she arrived for the summit, British Prime Minister Theresa May said it was "vital that we work together to continue to put pressure on Russia to stop its appalling atrocities, its sickening atrocities, in Syria."

Estonian Prime Minister Taavi Roivas also took a hard line against Moscow and Assad.

"They have the ambition of turning Aleppo into a new Grozny. This is absolutely unacceptable," he said, referring to the destruction of the Chechen capital in 1999-2000 by Russian troops.

Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Loefven summed up the hesitancy on sanctions, saying "I don't think there is unity now ... but I think it should be on the table, that this is an option for the future."

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/eu- ... li=BBnb7Kz
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby windwalker on Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:41 pm

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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby grzegorz on Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:53 pm

I agree Steve. As you mentioned basically the podcast takes a conservative point of view which is interesting since the guy is Canadian complete with looking down at foolish Americans but instead of making fun of Americans for not being liberal he makes fun of Americans for being liberal. Now there is nothing wrong with making fun of Americans there is so much to make fun of but as you pointed out instead of going into depth into what is actually happening he takes his side and excludes any information that would balance out or contradict him. Which is fine too because it makes me further understand why there are so many divisions.

I actually found it kind of interesting to hear in some depth why some believe the US is about to start WWIII. It makes me realize why I see and hear some of the things I see and hear and I know how I would respond if someone tried to convince me of what I heard because although dude starts with facts he also mixes in a few conspiracy theory and exaggeration to prove his point which serves as a reminder why we all need to do our own research.
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby Michael on Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:49 am

Yeah Greg, I feel ya. If Dubya announced on TV that I won a million bucks, I would miss it and not regret it.
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby grzegorz on Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:31 pm

LOL!

Really?

Like I said I have watched those goons speak before.

If you have something specific you want to address then give it your best shot.

You tried this game before on the other Russians thread and you guys tried to bust my balls because I wasn't watching your videos but the fact is I did watch some of them but as soon as I found falsehoods I stopped.

You may disagree with me but I don't believe in encouraging douche bag behavior. A co-worker of mine has a podcast modeled after Opie and Anthony but even more racists and more disgusting than ever. If he gets a few more listeners than he did before he celebrates like he won the lottery. I say shut these people off because each click only adds to their propaganda machine.

Using your own logic Michael I would assume you have watched every IS video and every Nazis propaganda video from the thirties since you have such strong opinions of both.

So have you? Did you even bother to listen to Freedomain? Because that's what we are discussing anyway.

Remember you just posted a false claims that Milsevic was exonerated? Yes?

Did I bust you?

No, of course not. You just got bad information that you didn't filter out. We'll I filter out bad information .
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby grzegorz on Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:03 pm

Michael wrote:Yeah Greg, I feel ya. If Dubya announced on TV that I won a million bucks, I would miss it and not regret it.


Besides I did watch the Putin interview and I gave my response, so what's up?
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby grzegorz on Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:55 pm

Mr_Wood wrote:ffs, now duterte is jumping in on the action

http://www.vice.com/en_au/read/rodrigo- ... ign=global


To me this is just further evidence that he has hand in these killings otherwise I doubt he would threaten to cut all ties with the US when he could easily have great ties with both countries. As I recall the US and China are the biggest trading partners all.
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby Michael on Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:09 am

The article included some claims about Milosevic that were not the focus and I did not mention. I'm glad you posted some contrary information, I read the first article you posted by Al Jazeera, will watch the others.

I might try and summarize some of these interviews in order to get feedback from you and others, just depends on how much time I can put into it.

I'm not blaming you for not watching videos, I'm just trying to find a way to discuss the topic that's workable. You were frequently posting your opinions with the caveat that you weren't going to argue or debate, so just feeling you out (up?) lol.
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby grzegorz on Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:39 am

Well everyone is repeating all the same talking points so sometimes it's not necessary to hear it from the horse's mouth. I have those interview but nothing new was revealed. The only new thing was hearing Putin point out how powerful the NSA is was to me verifies what I believe too.
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby windwalker on Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:01 am


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mUCLHzWiJo

President Merkin Muffley: But this is absolute madness, Ambassador! Why should you *build* such a thing? :o


Ambassador de Sadesky: There were those of us who fought against it, but in the end we could not keep up with the expense involved in the arms race, the space race, and the peace race. At the same time our people grumbled for more nylons and washing machines.

Our doomsday scheme cost us just a small fraction of what we had been spending on defense in a single year.

The deciding factor was when we learned that your country was working along similar lines, and we were afraid of a doomsday gap.
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby grzegorz on Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:22 pm

Turns out it was the Russian hacking group Fancy Bear. The interesting thing about it is that it was a Russian who lives here who figured it all out. Not sure if that part is in the news though my wife works in cyber security and used to work with the man who now has his own company who was known for his arrogance. :P I suppose he earned it.
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Re: The Russians did it.

Postby Steve James on Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:47 pm

The interesting thing about it is that it was a Russian who lives here who figured it all out.


Russian hackers have also released some of Putin's stuff :)
http://dailycaller.com/2016/10/26/now-r ... rker-side/

Methinks they'll be running scared. Oh, and it'll be blamed on HRC.
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