Sleep

[aiasthewall]

Anyone here have trouble sleeping, like for weeks or months at a time?

I have been waking-up in the middle of the night, or in-between a weird dream and wake sleep off and on for the past few months. Generally it will go on for like a week, with little good sleep, then I will get a couple nights good sleep, then it'll go back. Often I will feel like I've slept through the night, but wake up exhausted. I have a rather stressful work-life, so I am almost certain it's stress related.

I have tried Ambien as well as more "natural" supplements: Kavinace, Cortisol Mangaer, etc...

I am seeing a naturopath, and have talked to an M.D. about it. I am hesitant to go to a sleep specialist because $$$.

I have asked my wife if she has noticed any symptoms of Apnea at night: trouble breathing snoring, etc. She has said no, but I do toss and turn a lot.

Anyhow, thought I'd put it out there, see if anyone has had similar experiences.

Thanks!

[Strange]

1) try jogging/running to keep the heart pumping, in chinese medicine sleep is govern by the heart
2) learn to switch off your mind from work
3) do not eat lunch at your desk, after eating switch off mind for 15 mins

my 2 cents, what i'd do

[Michael]

Yes, I have this year and a little worse than you described.

Basically, I narrowed it down to bad water, which is normal in China. It was combined with stress and the only cure was, and sorry this sounds generalized, but the only cure was love, to be quite honest. The stress, bad water and sleep deprivation had gone so far that there needed to be a completely different sub-system accessed in order to re-optimize the circuitry, lol.

Love is always one of the levers that can be pulled in order to get one's fat out of the frier.

[Steve James]

Don't think about going to sleep. Develop a routine. Do it --no matter what it is-- then make sure that your room is dark and quiet and just wait. Even if it doesn't work, do it again. I wouldn't try using any drugs, but chamomile and other teas can act as sedatives.

Personally, I think that sleep problems usually have more to do with issues of the day.

[jimmy]

I had horrible insomnia for about 10 years after I got married. I had always been an "active" sleeper - my wife would say "a violent flip-flopper" - and I had a really hard time learning to share a bed with another person. I would get so worried about waking her up that I would try to be really really still, and then I would start to feel very claustrophobic and hemmed in. That led to anxiety, which led to racing thoughts, which led to the vicious cycle of insomnia as described in the original post.

I eventually got rid of it by: (1) sleeping [alone] in the floor; and (2) experimenting with bi- and polyphasic sleeping patterns. Floor sleeping let me move around as much as I wanted without worrying about the geometric confines (and annoying bounciness) of the bed. Polyphasic sleep allowed me to gradually adjust to fewer overall hours of sleep, while still optimizing energy levels during the work day and periods of meditative calm throughout the 24 hour cycle.

As Steve and Strange pointed out, consistent adherence to a given sleep schedule is crucial, as is pre-bed "sleep hygiene"... minus the oft-cited (but contraindicatory) prohibition on bi- or polyphasic sleep.

[aiasthewall]

Thanks everyone! Strange I do grappling 3-4 times a week, plus other cardio on top, so I am certainly physically exhausted when I lay down.

I have a routine and I do stick to it, though perhaps I need to change it around.

Just to be clear, I do not have difficulty falling asleep at all, just the quality of sleep is very poor: I am in between sleep and wake the entire time. Odd dreams that wake me up often, etc. I often feel more rested going to bed than when I awake. It's really weird and extremely frustrating, as those who have dealt with it can attest to. Cannabis sometimes helps but I would rather not rely on it, and it doesn't always work anyhow.


Jimmy, thank you! I will try your suggestions. Looks like interesting stuff.

Best,
B

[Michael]

A cold and as-dark-as-possible room helped my sleep quality.

[Bao]

. Rigorous sleep hygiene is key or you will just mess up your sleep and circadian rhythms for a longer period.

I slept very irregularly, about 3-5 hours every single night for several years (for 6 years. No, I am not joking). Never more than that (well, I had a few summers I could shape up a bit). I just worked too much with my own company, so I didn't have time to sleep more than that. I really don't know how I could keep it up. But you can get used to it I guess. After slowing down, I couldn't sleep for more than 6 hours for about 6 month. My body just said stop to more sleep than that. Now it's better, I've got back to a more normal, regular sleep, though I can wake up in the middle of the night and be wide awake if I've slept good several nights in a row. The best thing maybe is that I don't act like a part-time zombie and like half time going on speed anymore.

Newer and small businesses are really stressful. Breath practice throughout the day can be really helpful throughout the day and help take the edge off of cumulative stresses that keep you awake at night. I'd recommend exploring Buteyko breathing.

Yup, it can be. Really so, I made it through by drinking a lot of coffee in the days and having one or two of glasses of red wine in the evenings to calm down. Now when I get sleep again, I drink much less coffee and never drink any alcohol. I am really enjoying being sharp and thinking clear again. All thanks to getting more sleep than I have had for the last ten years.

.... So my really bad advice (because I have no other), if it's too stressful, would be to have a glass of wine in the evenings to calm down ...

[jimmy]

yowza!!! been on that roller coaster before...

[Strange]

....but the only cure was love, to be quite honest.

[Trick]

No iPhone, iPad or laptop in bed, if have them by the bed turn them off for the night. Eat some bread or a banana before bedtime, lately i eat a sweetpotatoe before bedtime sleep as a log. Back when i was into Karate i had some trouble with my sleep cause the late night classes, it often took me about two hours to wind down, and all the water i had to drink cause the hard workout made me go upp to pee a couple of times during the night which i found irritating. Speaking about drinking, if you are a coffe/Tea drinker, cut i down, no afternoon coffee, as mentioned the caffeine stay in the system much longer than we think.

[Giles]

.... So my really bad advice (because I have no other), if it's too stressful, would be to have a glass of wine in the evenings to calm down ...

I have to interject here, sorry, that this truly is bad advice

It might be different for some people, but AFAIK the generally accepted medical viewpoint is that alcohol may possibly help one to fall asleep but the resulting quality of sleep tends to be much poorer. It suppresses the REM phases and sleep in general is shorter and less refreshing. It's then a vicious circle to then self-medicate with a drink before bed-time to "help you sleep".
https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/alcohol-facts/health-effects-of-alcohol/effects-on-the-body/alcohol-and-sleep/

[aiasthewall]

Thanks everyone!

Regarding wine before bed, I used to consume, ahem, quite a bit more before than a glass or two before bed, so I haven't had a drink for six years. So that is out:)

I do drink a lot of coffee for my work (I own a coffee roaster), so I am going to cut that in half and see what happens.

I do my bjj during the lunch hour, so I don't think it's that. But, though it is probably coincidence, I do think that the worst the insomnia began when I started grappling regularly.

Anyhow, I am going to work on the suggestions, and thanks again!

Insomnia sucks, hard.

[Bao]

.... So my really bad advice (because I have no other), if it's too stressful, would be to have a glass of wine in the evenings to calm down ...

I have to interject here, sorry, that this truly is bad advice

It might be different for some people, but AFAIK the generally accepted medical viewpoint is that alcohol may possibly help one to fall asleep but the resulting quality of sleep tends to be much poorer. It suppresses the REM phases and sleep in general is shorter and less refreshing. It's then a vicious circle to then self-medicate with a drink before bed-time to "help you sleep".
https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/alcohol-facts/health-effects-of-alcohol/effects-on-the-body/alcohol-and-sleep/

Yes, I know. Good that you take up those points. No, I have never used wine to be able to sleep. When I was working hard, I never had any trouble falling asleep. I used wine, sometimes beer, to calm down a bit, balance myself. Sometimes I was so exhausted that I completely lost my sense of where I was or what I did. I could take the wrong bus or wrong metro line going far away without realizing I was heading the complete wrong direction. Sometimes I could count properly when I payed in a store or just left what I bought after paying it. Sometimes I felt my heart rate getting fast and out of control. Yes, I was sometimes completely exhausted. Usually I took a glass or two by ten o'clock and continued working with things until two or three in the morning. So I have never used any alcohol before getting to bed. And I know that you should never ever use strong liquor, whisky and similar. It can affect the breathing so you'll have a very hard time getting to sleep. That is something I am happy to point out. But no, I have never had any trouble sleeping.

What I meant was that it's sometimes ok to take a glass of wine in the evening to calm down. I don't think you should finish working and just jump into bed. First calm down, relax and have some fun. Then go to sleep.

[willie]

Melatonin