NATO

[windwalker]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj4xuDTSI7E

[grzegorz]

RT? Really? LOL! Explains everything. The Kremlin funded and Kremlin approved news source wants to do away with NATO so the Russians can re-build the Soviet Union through influence and invasion and sure enough Trump is all for it too.

Here is everything you need to know about RT.



https://youtu.be/ErBHVk90B6o

[origami_itto]

If we would have had NATO in the 30s, we wouldn't have had WWII.

When Hitler annexed Poland (the way Putin annexed Ukraine), they would have responded by putting troops in France (the way they put troops in Poland recently)

Hitler would have HATED NATO almost as much as Trumputin does.

[yeniseri]

It was not possible for NATO to be the organization it is today based on the era and the monarchy!

The Austria-Hungarian Empire breakup left too much baggage and disunity so each country needed to feel the freedom of its own population enjoying some degree of autonomy before an actual NATO was created. It did not help that Sudenten Germans sought to form their own land within their state of birth outside Germany then add Hitler's starategy to take over said lands just because they had a German origin population.

When you "privatize" organizations like NATO invoking "well, they have to pay their fair share" the sh*t will hit the proverbial fan at some point then you have Putin threatening the EU and Trump says there is no problem, then one has to be worried

[Steve James]

The question is how expansionist Russia intends to be. It's probably unlikely that it'll attempt to invade the western European nations. The east and Ukraine is another story.

Here's where it get's interesting in terms of policy. There are those who'll say. Well, the USSR and the old Russian Empire (which, recall, was European family) extend from A to B, which includes the current nations of X, Y, Z. So, if Russia decides that it should have those territories back, how should the US respond?

If Trump uses historical influence as the justification (though Russia will say that it intervened to prevent atrocities against Russians in those areas), then is the US policy that a bigger country is allowed to take over smaller countries? If so, what will we do if China decides that Taiwan needs to be more fully incorporated? Or, why shouldn't China expand to the limits of its former empire --which is far older than Russia.

Afa NATO, what about SEATO? What business do we have supporting S. Korea? And, what about the Middle East? What gives us the right to promote and support wars over there? How is it that we have a military base in Cuba, which has never attacked the US?

[windwalker]

Afa NATO, what about SEATO? What business do we have supporting S. Korea? And, what about the Middle East? What gives us the right to promote and support wars over there? How is it that we have a military base in Cuba, which has never attacked the US?

Exactly. How is it that the US has military bases all over the world, and talks about others being expansionist,
and claims it does so in the interest of everybody.

While in Ger, in the late 70s guarding "their" border I often wondered why we never seemed to guard our own.

As far as the "Trump" regarding NATO,
I do feel its good to really look at the how and what its doing now backed by the US....at least review
the reasoning and policies.

The US has a lot of things to take care of on its own turf...time to start addressing them.

[grzegorz]

We are there because there is a sieze fire from a civil war we got involved in.

I find it funny how the same people who want to unite with Putin to bomb IS are now saying that NATO is obselete.

What are we cowboys? We just form alliances and cut and run when the going gets tough?

By the way, with or without impeachment the next administration will have to deal with North Korea and probably without the PRC's help since Trump has pissed all over the one China policy.

Olbermann: 'We Have Elected an Idiot' (Video)

http://www.allthatsfab.com/videos/polit ... diot-video

[windwalker]

If you want to comment on this post.
Instead of all the innuendos about other people or me, how about sticking to whether NATO as its currently configured and used
is it still relevant in this day and age.

Off hand I would say no, as it was developed as a counter to the Warsaw Pact.

"The North Atlantic Treaty Organization was created in 1949 by the United States, Canada, and several Western European nations to provide collective security against the Soviet Union. NATO was the first peacetime military alliance the United States entered into outside of the Western Hemisphere."

[grzegorz]

As Russia gears up to take on the Baltic states after bombing Allepo to smithereens.

I would throw in a name here but I'll just say we've become a nation of kittens.

Anyway we can agree to disagree, General Mattis is on my side and President Twitter is on yours.

[grzegorz]

Mattis Is Right. Here’s Why NATO Is Not Obsolete

https://www.google.com/amp/taskandpurpo ... oid-att-us

[grzegorz]

I have been polite so here is a question to you since you have the opposing view.

How do you know what the world will look like in 20 years?

Remember the Philipines kicked out the US and then sure enough China starts swallowing up some islands which the PI never could have imagined.

Not to mention Russians are still in Ukraine. That hasn't ended and all the nations around there are preparing for war. So why cut and run now?

[Peacedog]

The main issue I saw at the Pentagon was the fact that most of the NATO countries were not keeping up with the 2% of their GDP that they had agreed to spend on their military forces.

This left most of them with a very limited ability to integrate with US forces in an operational environment.

My feeling is that, as with much of his platform, Trump is merely stating an opening position to get the other sides attention.

France comes close, but Germany, Italy and Canada are only meeting about half of what they need to.

Even the U.K., which does meet its requirement, had a really hard time integrating in Iraq and they were the second biggest force there.

If the Euros want NATO to exist, they need to get on the ball with making it operationally relevant.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/08/news/na ... countries/

[grzegorz]

I hope you are right because as far as I am concerned President Twitter is nothing more than a traitor loyal to Putin.

[windwalker]

The main issue I saw at the Pentagon was the fact that most of the NATO countries were not keeping up with the 2% of their GDP that they had agreed to spend on their military forces.

My level of visibility comes from interacting with the units there and having joint exercises with them.
The Germans are very capable as are the Brits.
We referred to the Ger. as comrades and the Brits as limeys,,,they would call us Yanks.

Much respect to both armies and soldiers. At the time the wall was up and Warsaw was still intact.
I feel its time to really question the rational as well as the cost of NATO. At that time “cold war”
Russia was the enemy, That Russia, the Russia that currently takes our astronauts to and from the space station, from my perspective no longer exist and is very different as is China.

True we will always have differences. One might asks as I do, why the US has so many bases overseas and yet accuses other countries of being expansionist. I would question who is really the expansionist. The US would not allow any country to set up on its borders with tactical weaponry.
Why would the US expect other countries not to do the same.

[grzegorz]

You never addressed my post Wind.

We are there because there is a sieze fire from a civil war we got involved in.

I find it funny how the same people who want to unite with Putin to bomb IS are now saying that NATO is obselete.

What are we cowboys? We just form alliances and cut and run when the going gets tough?

By the way, with or without impeachment the next administration will have to deal with North Korea and probably without the PRC's help since Trump has pissed all over the one China policy.

Olbermann: 'We Have Elected an Idiot' (Video)

http://www.allthatsfab.com/videos/polit ... diot-video