Whoops, apocalypse!

[Ian C. Kuzushi]

I don't think you know what "safe zones" are. They are not one clearly defined thing. And, your use of them in your derision of me has nothing to do with refugees. Actually, on university campuses these days, it's conservatives who are calling for safe zones. Funny that.

[Dmitri]

I still can't believe this country actually put such an unbelievably ignorant and arrogant piece-of-shit asshole into the White House. Just... wow.

Just like during the campaign, every time he opens his fucking mouth, some new, stinkier and stickier shit inevitably dribbles out. Only now it's not a campaign anymore...

What an awful embarrassment he has already been, after only two weeks.

[grzegorz]

I still can't believe this country actually put such an unbelievably ignorant and arrogant piece-of-shit asshole into the White House. Just... wow.

Just like during the campaign, every time he opens his fucking mouth, some new, stinkier and stickier shit inevitably dribbles out. Only now it's not a campaign anymore...

What an awful embarrassment he has already been, after only two weeks.

Guilty pleasure!

[klonk]

In other news...

http://www.albawaba.com/editorchoice/ku ... ies-932174

Kuwait issues its own Trump-esque visa ban for five Muslim-majority countries
Published February 1st, 2017 - 09:17 GMT

[grzegorz]

Leaked Military Official Comments Claim Trump's First Counter-Terror Op Was "Undertaken Without Sufficient Intel... Backup Prep" | Zero Hedge

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-0 ... -undertake

[Steve James]

True. There is religious discrimination and persecution in other countries. We're supposed to be "the land of the free" etc., but mostly, we're not other countries. That's one reason why so many come here from other countries.

[klonk]

True. There is religious discrimination and persecution in other countries. We're supposed to be "the land of the free" etc., but mostly, we're not other countries. That's one reason why so many come here from other countries.

An evident question is why Arab and Moslem countries are not doing more themselves, about Arab and Moslem refugees. The answer goes, I think, more to questions of practical self-interest than to religious differences.

[Ian]

I still can't believe this country actually put such an unbelievably ignorant and arrogant piece-of-shit asshole into the White House. Just... wow.

Just like during the campaign, every time he opens his fucking mouth, some new, stinkier and stickier shit inevitably dribbles out. Only now it's not a campaign anymore...

What an awful embarrassment he has already been, after only two weeks.

Well then, this should put your mind right at ease

“The world is in trouble – but we’re going to straighten it out, OK?” Trump said at the National Prayer Breakfast, gesturing his hands for emphasis.

“That’s what I do. I fix things. We’re going to straighten it out. Believe me. When you hear about the tough phone calls I’m having – don’t worry about it. Just don’t worry about it. They’re tough. We have to be tough, it’s time we’re going to be a little bit tough, folks. We’re taken advantage by every nation in the world, virtually. It’s not going to happen any more.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -breakfast

[Steve James]

An evident question is why Arab and Moslem countries are not doing more themselves, about Arab and Moslem refugees.

According to the UN, there were approximately 6+ million Syrian refugees.

Turkey 2,724,937 (registered as of August 2016)[3]
2,748,367 (the highest number registered, 3 March 2016)

Lebanon 1,500,000 (estimated arrivals as of December 2015)
1,048,275 (registered)[4]

Jordan 1,265,000 (census results as of November 2015)[5]
657,422 (registered July 2016)[6]

Germany 600,000(total by late 2016 since 2014)[7]
429,000(registered by late 2016)

Saudi Arabia 500,000 Syrian (estimated overstays as of 2016)[8][9]

Greece 496,119 (arrivals to May 2016)[10]
54,574 (estimated in country May 2016)[10]
5,615 (applicants to December 2015)[11]

Macedonia 400,000 (estimated arrivals)[10]
2,150 (applicants to December 2015)[11]

Serbia (incl. Kosovo) 313,314 (applicants to December 2015)[11]

Iraq (incl. Iraqi Kurdistan) 230,836 (registered in whole Iraq)[12]

United Arab Emirates 242,000 (estimated overstays 2015)[13][14]

Kuwait 155,000+[8][15] (estimated overstays to June 2015)

Egypt 117,702 (registered by March 2016)
119,665 (UNHCR estimate as of March 2016)[16]
500,000 (Egypt MFA estimate as of September 2016)

Sweden 110,333 (applicants to December 2015)[11]

Hungary 72,505 (applicants to December 2015)[11]

Canada 61,886 (applicants to December 2016)
43,589 (approved as of December 2016)
39,902 (resettled as of December 2016)[17][18]

Croatia 55,000 (estimated as of September 2015)[19]
386 (applicants to December 2015)[11]

Algeria 43,000 (estimated as of November 2015)
5,721 (registered as of November 2015)[20]

Qatar 40,000 (estimated overstays 2015)[8]
42 (registered)[8]

The U.S. is way further down the list with something like 12,000, including applications, not arrivals.
To your point, however, predominantly Muslim countries have been the ones accepting the majority of Syrian refugees. Turkey has taken close to 4 million (of the 6) alone.

Secondly, the cultural and religious differences that make it easy for one group of Muslims to reject another illustrate the diversity of Islam. Every Muslim and Muslim country who rejects fanaticism refutes the argument people use against Islam generally. And, someone posting a video of a Muslim condemning Islam is fine; I could post videos of Christians who became Muslims. A tit for tat debate is very internet; but, it does not address the question of how we (in the US) can intelligently try to weed out those who may come here to do us harm. Personally, I don't feel any safer.

[Ian]

These Muslims are EVERYWHERE. It's almost as if Islam is taking over the world!!!

Actually, just a nice Kuwaiti on Facebook thanking Jordan for taking in millions of refugees.

[Fubo]

You would not review a process that you were taking over and would be held responsible for?
You'er looking at public newspapers for your “intel” and then drawing a conclusion from this and making an absolute statement regarding the threat level of the countries on the list. One might aks why they were even on the list, who made it and why.



I never quite understand this...any site that I or anyone uses that provides a counter narrative is labeled and those used by some here is not?
I do agree that in this day and age, one has to find a balance to get a good perspective. Regardless of what some may think or feel, reading some of the post here provides another view point which one can check relevant facts or statements against. The differing view points are
quite interesting mins the rancor that often accompanies them..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui4YRjMzILY

There are other leaders and spokes people providing a counter narrative to some of what is being presented who are Muslims and
understand it from the inside.... They seem to echo what that "right wing extremist site" mentions, are they too right wing and extremist?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9DOijyxTGk

The "intel" that suggests there aren't any immediate threat came straight from the Trump administration via Sean Spicer. They openly admitted it, did you not know this? And yeah, one SHOULD ask why the 7 countries are on the list with no imminent threats towards the U.S. and then ask why Turkey, Saudi… aren't on the list considering the more significant threat they pose? The nonsense that the administration had to start somewhere is so ludicrous, it either shows they're trying to cover their tracks, or they're so incompetent that they can't use simple logic to conclude which countries pose more of an immediate threat. So, tell me, why the 7 countries on the list and not Turkey or Saudi…?

all the channels and sites you've used present right wing extremist ideology… I mean, it's not about labeling, it's about seeing them for what they are. You're right, you can present channels spewing misinformation, and people can easily fact check. Such is the beauty of the internet. "Differing view points are quite interesting"… yes, it's like saying "my, what an interesting view point that Nazi had about extinguishing the lives of 6 million Jews…" I think that when people are out of touch with reality, things merely become theoretical discussions.

It's interesting that you'd coin the channels you use as "counter narratives". It's like when Sean Spicer referred to their lies as "alternative facts".

http://www.alternet.org/media/anti-isla ... -deception

An important point Ali miss's in her critique of liberals focusing on the "group" as opposed to the "individual" is that it's the "group" that is constantly stereotyped and attacked. When the GOP defund planned parenthood, it's not only an attack on individual women, but women as a whole. When they GOP push for anti LGBT policies, it's not only an attack on an individual, but specifically all LGBT people as a "group". This Ban is not targeted at a single human, but a "group".

You know, Jeffery Lord is on a mainstream news channel, and he's a right wing extremist who believes in everything Bannon is having Trump do, so...

[Fubo]

Secret US Policy Blocks Agents From Looking at Social Media of Visa Applicants, Former Official Says http://abcnews.go.com/US/secret-us-poli ... d=35749325

Na your right I didn’t bother checking...maybe this will be one of things that gets changed.

Fearing a civil liberties backlash and "bad public relations" for the Obama administration, Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson refused in early 2014 to end the secret U.S. policy that prohibited immigration officials from reviewing the social media messages of all foreign citizens applying for U.S. visas, according to a former senior department official.

And your saying they shouldn't be reviewing this? maybe your right,,,
Ya might want to get with one of the families who've lost loved ones in San Bernardino attack...I'm sure they would agree with your assessment of the vetting process.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_San_ ... ino_attack

The fact that you'd make a comment with regards to building "safe zones" for refugees shows your ignorance of their situations and the complexities of the countries and situations they are fleeing.

It is interesting I’ve read pros and cons of the safe zones, anything presented here gets labeled so why bother. I would think that the people affected are at some point supposed to go back and rebuild their society. I don’t see how creating another area outside of their own area helps with this.
Seems to be lots of young men of war fighting age among the refugees. I would imagine had they a "safe zone" they would start to protect it with the expectation of going back home.

So you want to invade the privacy of foreign visitors with visas… So, there are plenty of people that cause mass shootings, school shootings in the U.S. are you for invading their privacies too? Perhaps the government could tap your phone and keep track of your social media activity, would you be cool with that? You know, cause white nationalists are statistically more of the threat to the U.S.:

http://time.com/3934980/right-wing-extr ... dangerous/

So, do you find domestic terrorism less worrisome? Judging by Trumps actions and lack of concern from him, his administration and his supporters, it certainly seems that way.

http://thehill.com/policy/national-secu ... s-on-islam

Perhaps there was a "safe zone" in Aleppo while Assad was bombing all his people. Since you're so in favor of "safe zone", I'm sure you'd be willing to take you and your family to one in war zone and take your chances.

You are however correct about one thing with regards to labeling. I borrowed the "label" "chicken shit" you used for Obama, and have appropriated it for Trump and his supporters, cause that's what they are.

[Ian]

white nationalists are statistically more of the threat to the U.S.:

http://time.com/3934980/right-wing-extr ... dangerous/

Fubo,

Trump just removed white supremacy groups from the domestic terrorism watch list, so you don't have to worry about that now

I also like how denying Muslims with green cards and valid visas can be explained away with "they're reviewing a process. Wouldn't you review a process?"

As South Park's Matt Parker says, “they’re already going out and doing the comedy. It’s not something you can make fun of.”

[Fubo]

Fubo,

Trump just removed white supremacy groups from the domestic terrorism watch list, so you don't have to worry about that now

I also like how denying Muslims with green cards and valid visas can be explained away with "they're reviewing a process. Wouldn't you review a process?"

As South Park's Matt Parker says, “they’re already going out and doing the comedy. It’s not something you can make fun of.”

Thank god! Those pesky white supremacists were not as worrisome as the statistics indicated. We can all sleep easier now.

I've read that the Gestapo were fond of "reviewing processes" too.

May I direct your south park quote to a specific event:

http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/a-full ... 1791871370

[grzegorz]

This was another point my co-worker brought up. I knew it was false but rather than tell him thay I told him it did not justify Trump doing what he did. Turns out it was false. Obama never had a ban on Iraqis they just reviewed and re-vetted due to an incident of two who should not have gotten through.

Trump says Obama banned refugees too. He’s wrong. - Vox

http://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/31/1444 ... e-ban-2011

I admit I haven't fact checked this and I am sure we could find a publication from 2011 but considering everything the Trump team has lied about I don't feel the need to but it is worth mentioning in all fairness.

Yet I have read about why Obama had the Iraqi refugees vetted again it was for good reason. If Trump has a good reason them let's see the evidence, but we won't because there isn't any and his supporters don't seem to have the whole picture as far as what Obama did and why.

Sure enough it was just more lies from the Trump team. I can smell them from a mile away.

Trump travel ban: Kellyanne Conway made up a fake terrorist attack by Iraqi refugees to justify President's move

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/02/trump-tr ... -move.html