Putin Puts Trump to the Test

[Steve James]

Speaking of morality, there's his opinion on torture. (Again, I know. Look at what the Saudis do). Anyway:

John Yoo, a former Justice Department attorney known for writing legal memorandums on enhanced interrogation tactics known as the Torture Memos, says President Donald Trump has gone too far in his use of executive power.

In a New York Times op-ed on Monday, Yoo argues that Trump's use of executive power is worrisome.

"He should understand the Constitution's grant of executive power," Yoo wrote, referencing Alexander Hamilton, who co-wrote the Federalist Papers, a series of essays on the Constitution.

"He should share Hamilton's vision of an energetic president leading the executive branch in a unified direction, rather than viewing the government as the enemy. He should realize that the Constitution channels the president toward protecting the nation from foreign threats, while cooperating with Congress on matters at home."

Yoo said Trump, as commander in chief, does not have the constitutional authority to order the construction of a border wall, nor does he have the power to terminate trade deals negotiated by Congress, like the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).

Yoo said that Trump's executive order imposing a temporary ban on nationals from seven predominantly Muslim countries entering the United States "falls with the law," but noted reports that Trump had originally sought a "Muslim ban." Yoo said such an order would "violate the Constitution's protection for freedom of religion or its prohibition on the state establishment of religion."

"Had Mr. Trump taken advantage of the resources of the executive branch as a whole, not just a few White House advisers, he would not have rushed out an ill-conceived policy made vulnerable to judicial challenge," he wrote.

Yeah, so who's this guy Woo and what does he know, aopt our fearless leader? He wrote these about all that waterboarding and enhanced stuff. http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB127/02.08.01.pdf

[grzegorz]

Yes Wind, I am fully aware of all the facts.

But again in the end if you are going to be upset about Anwar then you should be just as upset here because this was clear incompetence. Steven Brannon and Trump's son-in-law were present at the meeting when they gave the green light and the story is that the general's were against the raid. Obama clearly did not want to rush into this mission because they were unsure of the outcome.

As far as people taking up arms I am sure you would do the same if a foreign country raided your house too. So please don't give me this Obama did this. Obama is not the president and as much disrespect you showed him I will show on Trump ten fold. Let's stick with the topic already because the fact is we are going to continue to see this incompetence and Trump would have had Anwar killed too. Here is what he has done so far...

[windwalker]

Start with war as being immoral. With rules applied to somehow make it less so.
If you're not in the military or never have been it may be a little hard to understand.

For me it was always an issue of being able to say that the US as a policy did not do it to others.
Thereby expecting the same considerations if captured
in something that is essentially immoral to begin with.

[windwalker]

But again in the end if you are going to be upset about Anwar

I'm not, it was something beyond my control whether I agreed with it or not.
As to the Former President, like all presidents they have their good and bad points.
I did support "Obama" his polices, when he was first elected,
as time went on he seemed more like "Bush" lite.

The GOP, went nuts with the "tea party" gang just as the Dems, seem to be
going nuts now....very bad times for the US,,,time will tell.

For team "Trump" and President Trump.
I support many of the policies not necessarily the way they'e enacted or rolled out.
Would expect this to change as time goes on and "team Trump" gets its act together.
President Trump, will change as a matter of just being pragmatic if nothing else.

Hopefully he and they don't become engulfed by what they seek to change.
The beast is fighting back hard.

[grzegorz]

Trump Will never turn things around. He is incompetent and inadequate. How people voted for someone to fly their plane who hasn't even been in to flight school is beyond me.

Now it seems he is at war with media....(sigh)

[windwalker]

@ "G" we seem to have different views,
for me this ok, as long as it remains just a view point, a point of discussion.
nothing personnel.

I do take something you mentioned to heart that you mentioned about keep on the "down low"

Overhearing a conversation between 2 lawyers in a coffee shop talking about whats going on.
One a women the other a man...I had asked something about some of the points they we'er talking about..

Big mistake the man got very agitated unexpected for me as they identified themselves as lawyers.
Would have been a big mistake for him, had he followed up on his agitation. Luckily for both of us he and her
got up and left after some words,,,,

lesson learned: seems like there can be really no dialog even among people who one would
think would be very un-emotional

not good,,,

[Steve James]

If you're not in the military or never have been it may be a little hard to understand.

I respect that coming from a combat veteran who's seen war. Otoh, we're not talking about Trump are we?

Actually, "war" is as immoral as self-defense. And, the difference often determines the morality.

Afa "rules of war," there's the Geneva Convention that the US has signed. When Trump talks about targeting families (non-combatants), that's a war crime. Yeah, who's got the power to put him on trial? Besides, all this normalization just plays into the hands of IL and others who say "So what, we burn people alive, throw them off roof tops, boil them in oil, and chop their heads off. What's the big deal? Look at what you do. War is immoral. Get over it."

[windwalker]

off topic:

Afa "rules of war," there's the Geneva Convention that the US has signed.

Don't have the time to look this up, its something I never really understood as
from what I remember or have read someplace the US never did sign but holds to the values of it.
Others might want to check...I did have a genve convention card as a field medic, we were supposed
to use showing that we were classed as non-combatants. All the while being issued m-16s instead of a 45...which being classed as an
offensive weapon would tend to invalidate being classed as a non-combatant

you might want to check and understand what "Collateral damage" is and means...
depends on the target as to how much they will accept or not.
I dont say whether I agree or disagree, its just part of what they did, and do...

[grzegorz]

Of course people are emotional because we elected a president who ran of hatred and division. On top of being called a rapist and murder just seeing how T's is treating Muslims including green card holders and the lies and Bowling Green and then his criticism of every country except for Russia. Yeah this is a mess. Personally I am convinced he doesn't give rat's azz about the country or the world. Trump’s whole plan is to turn our plutocracy into an oligarchy

To be honest you can have whatever opinion you want. But I think you and the other Trump apologists are involved in a thankless task. Yes, people thought he would help the working class yet there is nothing that indicates that he will. Of course he will throw a bone or two that way in hopes of staying in power but it is obvious that all Trump cares about is Trump no matter how much AM radio you listen to.

[grzegorz]

By the way I have seen Trump supporters on facebook get emotional too including someone I was debating with who started posting photos of guns saying he wished duels were still legal. On FBI I am insult free unlike RSF where you get the real me. Even at work I have seen working class white guys angry at the anti-Trump protesters yet if Trump is true leader he would try to unite the country but he won't.

We are just two weeks in. Trust me this crap is going to get much worse. And once again like W the GOP will have another past president they will never again mention.

[Steve James]

Afa the Geneva Convention/s, the U.S. has signed and ratified all the four "conventions," but has not ratified two additional "protocols." The conventions refer to the treatment of military prisoners of war. The protocols are extensions of rights to prisoners, generally. Easy to look up, btw.

Afa collateral damage, also easy to look up.

Code: Select all

Collateral damage is a general term for deaths, injuries, or other damage inflicted on an unintended target. In military terminology, it is frequently used for the incidental killing or wounding of non-combatants or damage to non-combatant property during an attack on a legitimate military target.

I dont say whether I agree or disagree, its just part of what they did, and do...

How can one not "disagree" with collateral damage? It is unintentional. It's like not agreeing or disagreeing with airplane crashes. What's the point? Ya don't want them to happen. Saying that one intentionally intends to kill civilians and non-combatants is against the Geneva conventions (#4 specifically). Accidentally hitting a hospital is not.

Anyway, seems like the president is more respected than ever. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 65651.html

[grzegorz]

Speaking of getting emotional, Trump supporters are calling for a ban on Bud for telling the story of their founders being German immigrants in a Super Bowl ad.

[Steve James]

Speaking of getting emotional, Trump supporters are calling for a ban on Bud for telling the story of their founders being German immigrants in a Super Bowl ad.

Ffs, A. Busch came from Germany in the 1850s. Trump's grandfather came from Bavaria 40 years later.

[grzegorz]

Then Trump’s own mother came from Scotland in 1929. But it seems that the right would like to erase all of that.

[windwalker]

How can one not "disagree" with collateral damage? It is unintentional. It's like not agreeing or disagreeing with airplane crashes. What's the point? Ya don't want them to happen. Saying that one intentionally intends to kill civilians and non-combatants is against the Geneva conventions (#4 specifically). Accidentally hitting a hospital is not.

They already know how much collateral damage there will or will not be. Its done as part of an assessment.
Whether its equal to target value or not it's part of the matrix that goes into planning..

Its understood as part of the mission there is nothing to agree with or not, which is what I noted
It's not based on emotion. It's done to minimize the damage if possible.

But I think you and the other Trump apologists are involved in a thankless task

Another label,

I certainly don’t apologize for anything the President has enacted, only point out what seem to be the inconsistencies in what has been and is reported as facts by some in a discussion. No I don’t agree with some assertions you and others have made.

Time will tell how things go for team “Trump” and President “Trump”

A question? Lets say some how some way he is impeached what then?
What is the expected change?

Except for the delivery all things would still be enacted by the staff...
Unless one is talking about a coup.