Milo Out!

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Re: Milo Out!

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:17 am

Ian, there is not much comparison between Milo and Trump. Let's talk about Trump on those threads unless there is a clear connection. However, yeah, I agree with you about this, "As I said before, there is no need to exaggerate: we only need listen to what the guy says. Well, and watch what he does." One of the reasons I became aware of Milo or take more of an interest in Trump is because of outrageous exaggerations and lies that are totally unnecessary and polarizing.At Berkeley, a mob of 200 totally black clad hooligans were rioting, smashing windows, ATMs, a vehicle, and were caught on video beating one girl with a flagpole into the ground and pepper spraying another in the face while she was giving an interview. There were multiple fires during all of this on campus and the police took little action against the criminals, finally arresting one person. For you to say that Milo chickened out and suggest he is a snowflake is, uhm, baffling. :P

The violence at Berkeley that succeeded in preventing free speech does motivate me to some extent to be more receptive to hearing Milo's message and be defensive of him where there is a clear case for it.

Here is a recent video with Milo on Bill Maher where Maher criticizes Milo for this schtick that he does where he himself is using it to provoke his opponents and make conversation pretty much impossible.


Hmm, well, since you are using the same arguments to defend Trump and Milo (people who really shouldn't be defended, at least in the way you and others here do), it seems like they do have quite a bit in common. Besides, Milo is an outspoken supporter of his "daddy." They are both popular as products of a disturbing regressive trend in America.

As for the anarchists and antifa at Berkeley and Davis, they didn't stop Milo from going on. In fact, if history teaches us anything, maybe they should have had him gone on and had a real back and forth, a la the 68 Democratic Convention right here in Chicago. The Democrats finally woke up to the wrongs of the Vietnam War and the country changed trajectories. The point is, if Milo really believed in what he was saying, he would have gone on IMO. Instead, since he is just out to make a buck while making a scene, he chickened out. I don't really see why someone with no academic standing and nothing of value to share should be paid to speak at my alma mater. His level of hypocrisy (warning against the [nonexistent] dangers of trans people using bathrooms while condoning pedophilia is really just this guy showing his true colors).

There are plenty of conservatives who would be more interesting and have more substance to what they say that should be speaking at the country's top public university. Milo is being revealed to be the disgusting person that most people knew he was all along, just like Trump is proving to be the incompetent, image obsessed, temper tantrum throwing fool that most people knew he was as well. Hopefully, they keep talking and people actually listen. Then we can lose these clowns and get back on the track of progress. You know, equality, protecting the environment, education etc...In other words, all the things that conservatives are unabashedly against.

I don't see why you feel the need to defend these fools, especially since the most viewed media source in this country, Fox News, has their backs. Of course, I also seem to remember you posting Alex Jones videos, too. So, there's that...
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Re: Milo Out!

Postby Michael on Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:29 am

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:I don't see why you feel the need to defend these fools, especially since the most viewed media source in this country, Fox News, has their backs. Of course, I also seem to remember you posting Alex Jones videos, too. So, there's that...

I told you why and Trump is a much more serious topic. You're doing a lot of guilt by association and you're also taking a condescending attitude to say what I should or shouldn't speak about or defend, and you cap it off with something about my posting Alex Jones videos. So what? You want to expand this into some pissing contest about credibility that reaches back some years? Yeah, that'll be productive. Just get over yourself Ian, you're no gatekeeper of this discussion. Try and stay on topic.
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Re: Milo Out!

Postby Steve James on Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:43 am

Like I said, it's not interesting to argue about people's labels by labeling them. Better to argue about the arguments.

Anyway Steve, now you seem to very permissive of people having their say, at least online. Have you adjusted your approach since the Khalid Muhammed incident?


Not at all. That happened in the nineties, while I was teaching there. But, it was the students who protested his speaking. Btw, afa riots, Jews disrupted the German Bund meetings at Madison Square Garden in the 30s. There have been loads of confrontations between groups like this.

Remind you of anything?
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Re: Milo Out!

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:58 am

Michael wrote:
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:I don't see why you feel the need to defend these fools, especially since the most viewed media source in this country, Fox News, has their backs. Of course, I also seem to remember you posting Alex Jones videos, too. So, there's that...

I told you why and Trump is a much more serious topic. You're doing a lot of guilt by association and you're also taking a condescending attitude to say what I should or shouldn't speak about or defend, and you cap it off with something about my posting Alex Jones videos. So what? You want to expand this into some pissing contest about credibility that reaches back some years? Yeah, that'll be productive. Just get over yourself Ian, you're no gatekeeper of this discussion. Try and stay on topic.


No need for a pissing contest. I just find Trump and Milo to be disgusting people with reprehensible ideologies. You are defending them. I am questioning your defense of them. None of that was off topic. If you are getting your ideas from someone who has publicly stated that Hillary and Obama are sulfur infused demons, then it is probably relevant to your defense of Trump and those who think like him.

Hey, I actually agree with you on some of the more "controversial" Russia issues--mainly because I studied the history a bit and know how we have screwed them over nonstop since WWII. So, even if I think they are a bit over the top, I can at least understand where they are coming from. I also agree with what seems to be a continuation of Obama's policy of shifting from Russia and the ME to East Asia and China. Even a broken clock is right twice a day (re to Trump, not you).
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Re: Milo Out!

Postby Michael on Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:13 am

Let me set you straight on this. Obama was cloned from the ancient Pharoah plasma of Amen-ra and genetically programmed by sulphur infused demons to destroy America with gay frogs, and one of those demons is Hillary.

Here are the gay frogs that will destroy us:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUEy55r49fY
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Re: Milo Out!

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:43 am

I stand enlightened. ;D
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Re: Milo Out!

Postby grzegorz on Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:19 am

Michael wrote: Some of those students protesting Milo's talk at UC Berkeley are just as nutty because they've learned from these profs.


That is Blac Block that shut down Berkeley not the students. Although you did say some I haven't seen any proof of that. I don't know how well you know Berkeley but there are tons of people there on and around the campus who are not students. Yes some may be students which I don't see as a bad thing but ultimately Black Block believes that their form of protest is what is needed for governments to take their citizens seriously. Which in a lot of ways is true in terms of the media if it wasn't for the fires Milo would not have been in invited down to LA to be on Bill Maher.

Inside the black bloc militant protest movement as it rises up against Trump

The movement first made its presence felt in California more than two decades ago, then built its forces amid the protests against the Iraq war in San Francisco’s Financial District in 2003.

Out of the sea of largely peaceful antiwar demonstrators marching in San Francisco’s Financial District in 2003, a more militant subgroup emerged. Its members wore black masks, black jackets, black hoods and helmets. They smashed windows and looted military recruitment offices.

Since then, the so-called black bloc protesters have become a force in the Bay Area and beyond. They have been blamed for violence during protests in Oakland over corporate power and police abuse, notably the case of Oscar Grant, an unarmed black man who was killed by BART police in 2009.

Scorned by critics on both the left and right and hunted by police, the black bloc is bringing its radical tactics to the massive protest movement sparked by the presidency of Donald Trump.

The masked militants went fist to fist with neo-Nazis at the state Capitol in June, where five of their allies were stabbed. Black bloc tactics also dogged Trump’s inaugural ceremonies in Washington, leaving broken windows, vandalized banks and a torched limo.

And early this month on the UC Berkeley campus, black bloc militants tore down police barricades, broke windows, started a fire and assaulted Trump supporters.

They represented a small percentage of the 1,000 mostly nonviolent demonstrators who went to Berkeley to protest a speech by controversial Breitbart columnist and conservative writer Milo Yiannopoulos, but they dominated the outcome.

The university had been determined to allow the event in the name of free speech. Within minutes of the bloc’s assault on the building where the speech would be held, officials shut it down.

The protests earned rebukes from students, university administrators and Trump.

The angry vice chancellor called the melee an “unprecedented invasion” of an otherwise peaceful protest.

But some leaders of the campus protest called it a smashing success.

“It wasn’t just people dressed in black who were acting militantly and everyone else is peace-loving Berkeley hippies,” said Yvette Felarca, a political organizer of By Any Means Necessary, an immigration and affirmative action coalition that seeks to build a mass militant movement.

“Everyone cheered when those barricades were dismantled. ... Everyone was there with us in political agreement of the necessity of shutting it down, whatever it was going to take. It shows we have the power,” Felarca said. “I thought it was quite stunning.”

The term “black bloc” was used to describe the tight wedges of black-clad protesters in helmets and masks who appeared in street demonstrations in Germany in the 1970s, confounding efforts to single out, identify and prosecute individuals.

I go through the Bay Area and there are people sleeping in the doorways of million-dollar condos that are empty. ... Is that not violent?
— Bay Area black bloc militant
Its aim was, and still is, direct action. Practitioners care little for speech or to shape public opinion, and the media are held in disdain, as are liberals who espouse nonviolence.

Members operate in small squads that organize themselves around flags during the havoc of a protest. Many are anarchists, and anarchist websites such as It’s Going Down provide a public platform for reports from the underground.

They say they battle police brutality, corporate greed, immigration bans and erosion of civil liberties. The Bay Area has provided a fertile base for the group, especially Oakland, birthplace to the armed militias of the Black Panther movement.

“I subscribe to self-defense in the very same sense that the Black Panther Party does and that Malcolm X does,” said a veteran Bay Area black bloc militant who spoke on the condition that he not be named because much of the group’s actions are illegal.

He described himself as an employed college graduate, the product of youth incarceration and a household where street respect — not pacifism — was preached.

“Which means for me to recognize one type of violence, which is people being beat up for having certain types of political views and being brazen about them, compared to the everyday violence ... like I go through the Bay Area and there are people sleeping in the doorways of million-dollar condos that are empty. ... Is that not violent?” he said. “That is the most cruel and violent thing I think I have ever seen.”

The UC Berkeley protest was a call to arms for him and others. For months, protesters on campuses across the country have sought to shut down Yiannopoulos’ provocative college shows, in which he ridicules transgender people, immigrants who are in the country illegally and others.

Yiannopoulos, permanently banned from Twitter for racist and misogynist posts, denies allegations he is a white supremacist.

In the weeks leading up to the Berkeley event, campus administrators made clear their intent to allow the controversial speaker, part of a larger state university system’s adoption of the ACLU mantra to “combat hate speech with more speech.”

After a Yiannopoulos supporter shot a protester during demonstrations in Seattle, UC Berkeley responded to the rising threat of violence by pulling in officers from nine other campuses.

They stayed inside the barricaded Student Union building during most of the protest, arguing that to intervene would have escalated the violence. The effect instead was to raise the ante for the black bloc.

“They were going to allow it to happen until they determined that it was too dangerous for it to actually happen,” the black bloc member said. “So what other choice did we have?”

Berkeley put the blame for the violence at the Yiannopoulos event squarely on the black bloc faction, which campus police said numbered 100 to 150 members.

They “marched onto campus and began immediately throwing rocks, M-80s flares and Molotov cocktails at our officers and the crowd,” UC Berkeley Police Department Sgt. Sabrina Reich said.

Videos show black bloc members using firecrackers as a shield to get close to the Student Union, where they pulled down barricades. They took turns whacking at its windows with their sticks, rocks and the crowd-control barriers themselves. The bulk of the blows were directed at the Amazon store.

Videos also show black bloc members tackling and assaulting Yiannopoulos supporters.

There is a strategy behind much of the smashing, according to interviews and published manifestos.

The bloc pushes back against police lines, opening and holding space for mass demonstrations as police seek to corral and disperse the crowd. They draw pepper spray, rubber bullets and other uses of force. They say they focus destruction on standard-bearers of capitalism: Bank machines and a campus Starbucks were hit after Berkeley called off the Yiannopoulos speech.

Rioters loot and vandalize a Starbucks store during a protest against Breitbart News editor Milo Yiannopoulos in Berkeley. (Noah Berger / European Pressphoto Agency)


“Starbucks is a symbol of global capitalization,” the black bloc member said.

Those activists interviewed expressed no remorse for the property damage. They said it should pressure the university to think twice about allowing such events in the future. They hold the same regard for violence against people.

Bloc activists accompanying demonstrators against a white nationalist rally at the Capitol in Sacramento in the summer were met by white supremacists armed with knives.

Two law enforcement agencies continue to investigate the June 26 clash. Five people were stabbed, all on the side of the antifa, the anti-fascist movement. One was Felarca, who said assailants used box cutters and knives taped to their protest sticks. She required 24 stitches in her arm and head.

Sacramento police said they had been warned about the intent for violence, but they felt unable to stop it and after the fact, thwarted from investigating.

Within the anti-fascist movement, blog posts admonish wounded protesters not to speak to police.

Felarca and other activists said there is no official coordination with the black bloc, but there is covert communication between longtime street allies. Sometimes it is broadcast to the world, such as Facebook event invitations that call for participants to bring bandannas and other safeguards against pepper spray.

But they do recruit. An anarchist group is hosting a two-day conference in Oakland and San Francisco next month to draw newcomers. The black bloc member said he hopes it will help more people find the movement.

“The people I see coming in are curious about what this direct politics looks like. They have come up in the post-Oscar Grant, post-Occupy sort of political environment,” the member said. “In the next few years, they’re going to get their wings and they’ll start flying.”

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... story.html
Last edited by grzegorz on Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Milo Out!

Postby grzegorz on Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:24 am

Michael wrote:Lol, but when you get high profile, perception matters.


The far right are just a bunch of hypocrites. They claim they support Milo's free speech but wanted dude fired from Breitbart for his "free speech" on Rogan. It is clear and simple censorship as much as Black Bloc shutting him down in B-town was a form of censorship, in that case shutting down hate speech.

It is easy to talk the talk but not so easy to walk the walk. Milo blew up in the far right's face.

It was never about free speech which Milo still has as guaranteed by the government. The far-right just agree Milo but perception....LOL!
Last edited by grzegorz on Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Milo Out!

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:24 am

Yes, and let's not forget who the more common perpetrators of violence are in Berkeley protests. This was when I was a senior there (watch the tiny young woman who gets brutally beaten with weapons):



So, violence is not just some "progressive" or "leftist" problem. In fact, I would argue that Trump and Milo's rhetoric of hate has been the cause of far more violence than what shut down Milo.
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Re: Milo Out!

Postby grzegorz on Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:44 am

From the article posted above. I find it interesting that the far right never discusses this. So much for the right being the guardians of free speech.

After a Yiannopoulos supporter shot a protester during demonstrations in Seattle, UC Berkeley responded to the rising threat of violence by pulling in officers from nine other campuses.
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Re: Milo Out!

Postby Steve James on Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:48 am

Well, the problem is that agitating violence is a common political tactic that is almost always attributed to the other side. So, no one knows who funds Blac Bloc, or any other group that is used as an example. When the rioters are people 'in black masks,' then it's obviously organized. Every subversive organization has infiltrators. So, guys in black masks throw stones at the president's motorcade equals an attack by Blac Bloc on the president. Automatically, it becomes associated with "leftist" violence, and defense against leftists is justifiable self-defense.

In the end, no matter what views I have, I don't get a memo to riot. Thousands of people in the street is a predictable opportunity for rioting, though. All it takes is a spark or an instigator. Otoh, if you learned about the marches and demonstrations for civil rights were silent protests. However, they were organized. Hey, re: spies and agent provocateurs, you might be interested in this video ("Spies of Mississippi") http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/film ... ssissippi/
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Re: Milo Out!

Postby grzegorz on Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:31 pm

History of Black Bloc



https://youtu.be/GQkPyi8Fq2Y
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Re: Milo Out!

Postby grzegorz on Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:49 pm

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:Yes, and let's not forget who the more common perpetrators of violence are in Berkeley protests. This was when I was a senior there (watch the tiny young woman who gets brutally beaten with weapons):



So, violence is not just some "progressive" or "leftist" problem. In fact, I would argue that Trump and Milo's rhetoric of hate has been the cause of far more violence than what shut down Milo.


I remember Beegs arguing that the officers were in danger and the man with the reverse back pack was prepared for war. Even even though the right lives in fear of Black Bloc when I see a video like the one Ian posted I am not surprised radical groups like Black Bloc are on the rise.
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Re: Milo Out!

Postby windwalker on Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:29 pm

So let’s see: Yiannopoulos, who is an outsider to Berkeley and generally unwelcome there, succeeds in secretly arranging for more than 100 thugs to assemble in this city and then invade the Berkeley campus and cause more than $100,000 in damage, all to create a pretextual motive for Trump to alter federal funding for the UC system.

And Yiannopoulos manages to do this without a single one of the thugs spilling the beans and tipping off the fact that this violent criminal conspiracy is organized by Yiannopoulos, not his opponents.

To even describe the plot is to make clear how phantasmagorical the whole idea is. Occam’s razor applies here.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/vol ... cf06d75097

sounds possible, could be, right :P
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Re: Milo Out!

Postby klonk on Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:59 pm

Here we see an instructive example supporting the maxim that says there is no such thing as bad publicity. Many more people have heard of this Milo character than ever did before. He is shopping his book to new publishers, and may even get them to bidding against each other. He does a good job at his chosen specialty of being outrageous--when it comes to annoying people, he has something for everyone.
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