Wake up and smell the facism!

[Steve James]

Well, afa the eventual Soviet Union, I think it's necessary to remember that before the Bolsheviks, there was a Tsar. Marx would have said it was ultimately a revolt of the workers. Stalin came to power and was able to establish himself as a totalitarian ruler, but he was only another form of Tsar. WW2 started and he had an "agreement" with Hitler, who said that he wouldn't attack. Oops, Hitler lied. Big mistake, for both. The USSR "allied" with the Allies. But, after the war, well you know what happened after that.

Fascism, after WW2, was regarded as communism's evil opposite. They were the two forms of government that were despicable and needed to be eradicated. Now, it's debatable whether Hitler or Stalin was a worse despot, regardless of their political ideologies. Stalin was probably responsible for the deaths of as many people, and he was no fan of the Jews either. Then again, no one was. My point, however, is that they were the extremes of right and left, and neither was considered an acceptable form of government in a free world.

Btw, I don't think that having a formal education means much in a discussion. Knowledge is useful. Thought is better. A scholar is just a good student. Students of history can recognize patterns, but that doesn't mean they're always correct.

[grzegorz]

Speaking of fascism and economic growth, (I had this same discussion with Wiilie.) other than working at one of Trump's new private prisons or detention centers for immigrants or ICE or the border patrol in this new police state I am not convinced that removing regulations is going to turn coal into gold. They attempted to get the coal mines back in business in Poland with the promise of good jobs in communities of high employment yet no one is buying coal. I just don't see it. A few thousand jobs from Trump's policies in the rust belt then fair enough but a million jobs? I doubt it. Kodak isn't coming back, DHL is not returning to its former glory and no one is buying coal. With the exception of a few companies who will take advantage of tax breaks as a PR stunt the poor counties who voted in Trump will look the same in 2020 as they did in 2016.

Just as Trump said he had a plan to defeat IS, just as Trump said he had a plan for healthcare, just as Trump had a plan to make Mexico pay for the wall, just as Trump said he had a plan to deal with North Korea, Trump has no plans. His only plan was to win the election and day whatever he needed to say to get enough votes.

[Giles]

Well, afa the eventual Soviet Union, I think it's necessary to remember that before the Bolsheviks, there was a Tsar. Marx would have said it was ultimately a revolt of the workers. Stalin came to power and was able to establish himself as a totalitarian ruler, but he was only another form of Tsar. WW2 started and he had an "agreement" with Hitler, who said that he wouldn't attack. Oops, Hitler lied. Big mistake, for both. The USSR "allied" with the Allies. But, after the war, well you know what happened after that.

Fascism, after WW2, was regarded as communism's evil opposite. They were the two forms of government that were despicable and needed to be eradicated. Now, it's debatable whether Hitler or Stalin was a worse despot, regardless of their political ideologies. Stalin was probably responsible for the deaths of as many people, and he was no fan of the Jews either. Then again, no one was. My point, however, is that they were the extremes of right and left, and neither was considered an acceptable form of government in a free world.

The Horseshoe theory in political science https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory is fairly simplistic but can be a useful perspective, for instance regarding the similarities between Fascism/Nazism and Communism/Stalinism. It’s interesting to see how individuals or even societies sometimes make a ‘quick jump across the short gap’ from one extreme to the other. On the anecdotal level, the example of Horst Mahler is a good one:

Wikipedia: Horst Mahler (born 23 January 1936) is a German former lawyer and political activist. He once was an extreme-left militant and a founding member of the Red Army Faction, but later became a Maoist before switching to Neo-Nazism. Between 2000 and 2003, he was a member of the far-right National Democratic Party of Germany. Since 2003, he has repeatedly been convicted of Volksverhetzung ("incitement of popular hatred") and Holocaust denial and is currently serving a twelve-year prison sentence.

At the macro-level, one third of Nazi Germany made a relatively seamless transition into the Communist ‘German Democratic Republic’, with many state structures, methods of control, personnel and ways of thinking morphing from ‘old’ to ‘new’. The narrative in the GDR was that fascism was the great enemy of mankind, thankfully defeated (I guess we can all go along with that). But in practice, while of course there were no more concentration camps and the GDR certainly wasn’t as evil as the Third Reich, state and society had an awful lot of similarities.

One thing that Fascism and Communism (at least in the Soviet/Eastern European implementations) had in common, when put into practice, was a massive “us and them” narrative. The narrative that ‘we’ are the bearers of the truth and the light, that ‘we’ – by race and/or ideology – are superior to the rest of the world and also to any people within the state who don’t go along with the official narrative (even if objective evidence on this ‘superiority’ would indicate otherwise). And that ‘we’ are consequently engaged in a struggle against ‘the rest’ that we ultimately should and will win, by internal repression and force of arms if necessary. Then, when the bodies have been buried and the blood has been mopped up, we will move into a radiant and immutable future. ..............

[grzegorz]

Posting this for those who say the title is offensive.

A black Muslim teen was just found hanging from a tree outside Seattle

http://resistancereport.com/news/black- ... n-hanging/

This stuff is happening everyday in the US and these hate crimes are becoming so common now that the news barely even covers it.

On Craigslist.

[Dmitri]

There have always been cases like this, - how really frequent are they? Is this type of behavior a part of your life, does it directly affect you? In other words, if there were no internet or media, would you even know about it?

The title is sensationalist, as are many, of not most, of your thread titles. It's like if Alex Jones were the author, or like reading some political tabloid publication. And I just happen to hate sensationalism. It's just coincidental, I guess. But, as always, to each their own

[Steve James]

I try not to let the titles of threads or Youtube videos move me one way or the other, no matter how sensational. I know that an article/video that reports "immigrant murders schoolgirl" (or "mother of two", "veteran," etc) does so to make me feel a certain way about immigrants. If they substituted Jew, Muslim, Black or Hispanic for immigrant, the effect would be the same. If "White Christian" were substituted, however, most people would scratch their heads. But, few would say "See, that's how they are." At best, some would say, "Yeah, but ______ have done the same, and worse."

Sensationalism is used to manipulate peoples' feelings. For me, it's not a problem. I ain't gonna generalize about White people, no matter how hard people try. Nowadays, I see charges of fascism and/or racism have been associated with White people. More precisely, I see that some people get defensive when the terms are applied because they identify with them. The effect is that it's easy for some to argue that attacking fascism (or proto-fascism or fascistic policies) is an attack on White people. It's certainly used that way. And, ultimately, calling something fascist, racist, (Islamophobic, xenophobic, misogynist, etc.) is used as justification for those very things. In fact, people will wait for those words to be used in order to demonize the one who uses them.

Anyway, I think it's important avoid the "us v them" paradigm manipulation. I.e., calling certain protests riots and then pointing to particular people as the instigators. Usually, the protesters/rioters will be identified as "others." The vast majority, however, are White but who will be labeled as 'libtards," "leftists" or "paid agents." Oh, allow me to emphasize that this has nothing to do with White people or race or immigrants or anti-Semitism. It's about how those concepts are used to create divisions within societies.

[grzegorz]

There have always been cases like this, - how really frequent are they? Is this type of behavior a part of your life, does it directly affect you? In other words, if there were no internet or media, would you even know about it?

If your logic is this does not affect me so why should I care then all I can say is we have nothing in common. I am a vet and I believe my country which is why I feel the need to stand up for those who can't stand up for themselves. I am ashamed of when I hear Americans or anyone repeat your sentiments and yet they seem to the be the same people who say, "Thank you for your service."

The title is sensationalist, as are many, of not most, of your thread titles. It's like if Alex Jones were the author, or like reading some political tabloid publication. And I just happen to hate sensationalism. It's just coincidental, I guess. But, as always, to each their own

Don't like it? Then go train already. It isn't as if anyone is holding a gun to your head forcing people to post on my threads.

I mean excuse me but I think trashing Jewish cemeteries is bunk even though it does not affect me (as you say) and no it hasn't been happening everyday.



At least these Muslim Americans care. Feel free just return to your good life. I could do the same, no one messes with me, but I choose to give a damn instead.

[grzegorz]

Jeff Sessions: ‘It’s not insensitive to civil rights to stop monitoring police’

https://www.google.com/amp/www.independ ... html%3Famp

[Dmitri]

Dude you have completely missed my point.
Oh well.

I'll just say that I've spent 2 years serving as well (although for a different country), so I have some clue about some of those things.

Patriotism comes in all sorts of shapes and sizes -- as well as false patriotism. (Not inferring anything particular or personal by that, just a general thought)

[BruceP]

Wow...just watched the videos in the OP. LOL Hyperbole? You bet...

There are dozens of Mexico Border Checkpoint videos on the intertubes going back more than 5 years that play out just like what's happening in the "Trump's America" checkpoint vid above. On the first page of a YT search shows one from 7 years ago. Re: people refusing to be subjected to stop and search actions by Border Patrol agents.

Interestingly, the first vid in this thread is from an actual fascist state within my country. It's commonly known as "fascism lite" over here, though. Was going to do a run-up to that after a chronological look at the idea of necessary evil, like 'fascism', despotism, etc as a means of maintaining order. Like Saddam, Muammar, Bashar and Hassan...maybe even, and most probably, Vlad.

[grzegorz]

Patriotism comes in all sorts of shapes and sizes -- as well as false patriotism. (Not inferring anything particular or personal by that, just a general thought)

Perhaps if your country was on the failed ban list you would care instead of saying, "If it's not in the news why should you care?"

Dissent is the highest form of patriotism by the way and some countries dissent puts you in jail.

We may be talking at cross purposes but I am not going to be silent just because I "have it good" or my words or titles make people uncomfortable. This is what I do. I can't do it any other way. If you would like to do it for me then go right ahead.

[grzegorz]

Interestingly, the first vid in this thread is from an actual fascist state within my country. It's commonly known as "fascism lite" over here, though. Was going to do a run-up to that after a chronological look at the idea of necessary evil, like 'fascism', despotism, etc as a means of maintaining order. Like Saddam, Muammar, Bashar and Hassan...maybe even, and most probably, Vlad.

Federal officers don't take their orders from the state.



Yes, taxing soda is like living under Adolf.

[BruceP]

Federal officers don't take their orders from the state.

They're actually Montreal Police and Montreal Transit Security - not feds. They were responding to the scene of a brawl which took place between rival 'groups'.

[BruceP]

True. One can't rule out anything. We couldn't rule out that someone was paid by Trump supporters to do something that would be attributed to anti-Trump supporters. That's why my point was that to imply that it was perpetrated by leftist Jews without acknowledging that right wing extremists might also have been responsible seems like putting the blame on the victims. They just happen to have been Jewish cemeteries affected and Jewish community centers threatened.

For Trump to think that it makes him look bad is silly. He'd never advocate it, imo. All he had to do was condemn it, whoever was responsible, as I said. It's the people who have been and are being affected by these acts for whom he should show more concern, not imply blame.

Sure, it could have been Bernie bros. Have it anyway ya'll like. But, I tell ya this. If these things have been done by people who support an anti-Jewish and/or anti-leftist perspective, then Trump's comments only give them more license to continue. After all, if people accept that it was leftists attacking the Jews, and Jews attacking themselves, then there's nothing that can happen to Jews that people won't say "Naw, it ain't happening. It's just fake news trying to make our leader look bad."

But, afaik those few Trump supporters who are anti-Semitic, I personally couldn't give a flying f. I hope they get exactly what they want for the Jews. I think the president should say the same thing. The victims are Americans, and he's supposed to represent them.

Here's your guy:

Juan Thompson - the fake news, fake hate crime champion of the week:

[Dmitri]

Dissent is the highest form of patriotism by the way and some countries dissent puts you in jail.

My dad almost went to jail for being a dissident, one of my very close friends had some very intimate encounters with the KGB and had me hide some stuff for him, etc. You don't have to tell me about dissent, I've lived there, and long enough.

"If it's not in the news why should you care?"

As I said earlier, you've entirely missed my point, -- and now, instead of slowing down and figuring out what you missed so completely, you're expressly misquoting me...
I never said "why should you care"; nothing even remotely close to that.
Take a deep breath and go back and read what I actually wrote.

And if the problem is that you simply can't handle my expression of disagreement and dislike for your (style of) thread titles -- I can't help that. I'm just expressing my opinions here, just like you and everyone else. I haven't asked you to do anything about this thread title.

Just... wow.