Re: Wake up and smell the facism!
Posted:
Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:10 pmby Dmitri
Another inflammatory thread title, eh...
Looks like just law enforcement to me, if it's one of these:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/17/nyre ... s-ice.htmlImmigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE, released a list detailing the offenses of those who were detained. Among the most serious were 12 people with convictions for sex-related crimes, including three cases of rape and six involving offenses against children; nine with convictions for driving under the influence; three with robbery convictions; and two with convictions for distribution or sale of cocaine.
All of the convictions listed qualified as deportable offenses under the Obama administration.
Re: Wake up and smell the facism!
Posted:
Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:24 pmby grzegorz
Dmitri wrote:Another inflammatory thread title, eh...
The title is in honor of the thread wake up and smell the socialism from eight years ago.
Re: Wake up and smell the facism!
Posted:
Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:29 pmby Steve James
I'm not concerned about "where are your papers?" sweeps, but they do remind one of WW2 Germany. When I lived in Europe, I always remembered to have my "papers" with me, or at least copies of the originals. However, the police were very selective about who they stopped. It was like "stop and frisk" in the US. If you didn't have id, they could search you. German polizei were actually pussycats compared to the Paris flics.
So, actually, I have no problem with the police asking everyone and anyone for his or her identification, as in when they are entering an airport. But, that even includes driving down a highway --and having checkpoints for drunk drivers. Iinm, most US states require a person to carry identification. And, if the police stop 500 people, anywhere, they'll find someone who was wanted for some crime.
The issue is more complicated, though. Some people disapprove/d of these type of police actions, calling them an intrusion. Since I know that the police can do it to me anyway, I don't mind that they extend the courtesy to everyone equally.
Anyway, my concern is that these type of actions will be carefully directed at certain populations --and not criminals, in general. That's the tradition in the US, though. The population I'm concerned about are those who resist against these actions by assisting those at which the actions are aimed. For ex., the threats to cut off funding to cities that declare themselves sanctuaries, or have programs to assist immigrants. Ultimately, though, we'll have Ann Frank type situations; and the punishments for aiding people will be as great or greater, and distributed collectively.
Re: Wake up and smell the facism!
Posted:
Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:35 pmby Ian C. Kuzushi
Hi Steve,
My friends Abuela was stopped by ICE the other day in our fair city. She doesn't speak English, although is here legally. She was detained and taken to the station and put in a cell with criminals. Pretty lame.
Re: Wake up and smell the facism!
Posted:
Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:59 pmby Ian C. Kuzushi
Wow, just watched the first video. That was really disturbing. Not sure why Dmitri would call this a hyperbolic thread title. Looks like fascism in action to me. Disgusting. I am more and more ashamed every day.
Re: Wake up and smell the facism!
Posted:
Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:47 pmby windwalker
Dmitri wrote:Another inflammatory thread title, eh...
Looks like just law enforcement to me, if it's one of these:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/17/nyre ... s-ice.htmlImmigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE, released a list detailing the offenses of those who were detained. Among the most serious were 12 people with convictions for sex-related crimes, including three cases of rape and six involving offenses against children; nine with convictions for driving under the influence; three with robbery convictions; and two with convictions for distribution or sale of cocaine.
All of the convictions listed qualified as deportable offenses under the Obama administration.
The United States Supreme Court ruled that Border Patrol agents may stop a vehicle at fixed checkpoints for brief questioning of its occupants even if there is no reason to believe that the particular vehicle contains illegal aliens.[4] The Court further held that Border Patrol agents "have wide discretion" to refer motorists selectively to a secondary inspection area for additional brief questioning.[5]
In contrast, the Supreme Court held that Border Patrol agents on roving patrol may stop a vehicle only if they have reasonable suspicion that the vehicle contains aliens who may be illegally in the United States—a higher threshold for stopping and questioning motorists than at checkpoints.[6] The constitutional threshold for searching a vehicle is the same, however, and must be supported by either consent or probable cause, whether in the context of a roving patrol or a checkpoint search.[7]"
This has been in operation for awhile and is within the law.
Constitutionality[edit]
Internal checkpoints have also been criticized for violating the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution which prohibits "unreasonable searches and seizures", although The United States v. Martinez-Fuerte has affirmed their constitutionality. The U.S. Border Patrol has stated: "Although motorists are not legally required to answer the questions ‘Are you a U.S. citizen, and where are you headed?’ they will not be allowed to proceed until the inspecting agent is satisfied that the occupants of vehicles traveling through the checkpoint are legally present in the U.S."[17]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... heckpoints "Although motorists are not legally required to answer the questions ‘Are you a U.S. citizen, and where are you headed?’ they will not be allowed to proceed until the inspecting agent is satisfied that the occupants of vehicles traveling through the checkpoint are legally present in the U.S
"not allowed to proceed"
the guy in the clip might want to check the law before challenging it.
had relatives stopped before in the US, and have been stopped overseas.
In China, they check
Re: Wake up and smell the facism!
Posted:
Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:50 pmby Ian C. Kuzushi
The video that Greg posted (the top one) is not in the US. It turns out it is in Montreal.
That said, this is happening right now in Chicago and, I would imagine, other cities in the US.
Still, I don't like to use examples that don't support my point strongly. The Montreal vid is of people on NYE, IINM.
Re: Wake up and smell the facism!
Posted:
Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:55 pmby Steve James
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:Hi Steve,
My friends Abuela was stopped by ICE the other day in our fair city. She doesn't speak English, although is here legally. She was detained and taken to the station and put in a cell with criminals. Pretty lame.
Yeah, that's the thing. It's not about how criminals who are also undocumented aliens are treated. Nobody cries for them. It's about how the innocent are treated, especially if they resist. If there's an undocumented alien in your building, are you subject to the same rules?
Re: Wake up and smell the facism!
Posted:
Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:05 pmby windwalker
A federal district judge in San Antonio has issued an order stopping a Texas law criminalizing the harboring of illegal aliens, at least for now. The judge issued the preliminary injunction in MALDEF’s (Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund) lawsuit challenging Texas House Bill 11, a law which open border advocates are fighting because they say it improperly targets illegal alien shelters and those who rent to illegal aliens.
http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2016/04/ ... al-aliens/If one can look past the source.
It will be interesting to see how state law, and federal law plays out.
The bill became effective on September 1, 2015. The plaintiffs say the pertinent sections of the bill are unconstitutional because they violate the Supremacy Clause and attempt to regulate matters exclusively reserved to the federal government. They argue only the U.S. Congress has authority over these areas and the state law conflicts and interferes with the implementation and enforcement of federal laws and regulations.