Wake up and smell the facism!

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Re: Wake up and smell the facism!

Postby grzegorz on Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:46 am

Essentially every argument you make is the same Bruce.

BruceP wrote:Polls don't mean a thing. MSM shares the same cred as Sylvia Browne.

Pundits and panelists and political analysts

You keep lyin' when you oughta be truthin'
You keep losin' when you oughta not bet
You keep samin' when you oughta be a'changin'
What's RIGHT is right but you ain't been right yet


BruceP wrote:Social evolution is shaping up to become revolutionary beyond the media of facebook, twitter and webforums like this one. MSM is losing its relevance as the order of things is taken beyond the influence MSM purports to broker. History suggests that Trump's presidency needs more time in before that'll happen, though.


BruceP wrote:Godwin's Law guy is now able to divine the operation of other peoples' minds so deeply that he knows what credence they grant the various news outlets. Got it


BruceP wrote:Well, I posted the clip to illustrate the typical MSM false narrative and effort given to misinforming people via bullshit polling results. And how slickly interjected 'rhetoric' is applied to further the agenda. What does Cain have to do with any of that? It's not a racial issue, is it?

I don't recall that conversation regards your working in Thailand - might have been in the EF chatroom. If that's what I actually said, then I'm glad I was wrong. Not sure how any of that is relevant to this discussion, though.

Again, I don't know why race is even an issue. Mainstream media loves breaking things down along those lines and seeing the division it causes. It's good for ratings I guess. Shaping thought rather than informing it.


BruceP wrote:Trump's dressing down of CNN's Whitehouse Correspondent was an affront to the spirit of inclusiveness that is part and parcel of an open press conference. But not out of line considering that particular correspondent's overbearing and rude insistence that their question be addressed while he, Trump, was recognizing someone else's question first. Also, given the nature of the question they were attempting to ask, it seemed as though the CNN guy was goading in an attempt to illicit exactly the response he got. Like poking a dog with a stick until the dog comes back and then it's like, "See?...vicious dog!"

As far as his dismissal of that particular 'news' agency's integrity, and its collective loyalty to objective, unbiased journalism, CNN flushed themselves down the toilet a long time ago and have, since last year, embroiled themselves in a counter-campaign of character assassination, fake polls, and everything else within their means to shape narrative and voter perception in an attempt to influence the election. Their lies of omission, creative editing, exclusion of counterpoints, etc etc etc...has put them in the same bucket as buzzfeed, national enquirer, and other fake news outlets.


Serious question, do you have anything else to add because all of your posts are basically the same exact post just re-worded in a different way.

BruceP wrote:I'm not an educated man. Nor am I all that well informed, so this rabbit hole is pretty shallow over here. I may bow out and just read along if this thread takes off.


Then how is it that all answers on all things media and all things Trump?

You are completely entitled to your opinion. My point is whether you are aware of it or not you keep bringing the same thing to the table.
Last edited by grzegorz on Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:30 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Wake up and smell the facism!

Postby BruceP on Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:43 pm

Michael wrote:In this part of Harris' podcast from an hour and a half on Feb. 15, 2017, he says the left's identity politics is wrong and also failing to work against Trump, whom he accuses of being a pathological liar. Then Harris goes into an explanation of why either/or logical choices are not being used by Trump defenders, which proves they are unable to see or admit his lies, and he claims not a single of them can defend Trump's lying. It sounds to me that Harris fails to understand why Trump is popular and why he won the election.

Harris says Trump is a narcissist and a pathological liar and I could sum up by saying that means he's extremely selfish. However, people want that necessary personality trait of selfishness to be expressed by their president—despite the implications of Trump's individual pathology being extremely troubling to Harris or other Trump opponents—in order to serve their interests for economic and cultural survival.

They want a greedy, selfish president to protect their interests because those traits make sense, are more real, more genuine and more necessary, and less damaging than the left's claimed altruistic reasons for mass immigration, which is really just a way to buy voters by letting them into the country.

The extremity of immigration policies and failure to prevent illegal immigration appears much more damaging economically and culturally, as well as threatening to security, than the damage potential of Trump's lying.

The extremity of outsourcing and environmental policies that are perceived to be the root cause for unemployment appear to be a much greater threat to Trump supporters than what Harris describes as his lying and inarticulateness.



That's a nicely balanced commentary, Michael. And yeah, it is very important to play devil's advocate with our own thoughts and 'beliefs' when the order of things shifts from what's comfortable to what's contrary in terms of one's personal sensibilities. Not sure if that's where you were going, but that's what I was left with :)

I'm surprised that Harris's statement at 4:17 ("Trump is chaos") isn't something that's being discussed from an historical perspective. It's got some serious traction over here, and it's why I posted the clip. It's also what I've been talking about since the night of the election in terms of its historical significance. Maybe history is too used to looking back, and perhaps immersed in the past, that whatever lessons it offers for looking forward are left sitting on the shelf. It's prophetic at any rate.

At 10:40 he mentions the "...damage he's (Trump) done to the public conversation". Another astute commentary on the present state of divisions among Americans that's keeping each side from engaging meaningfully as Americans rather than as dems vs repubs, lefties vs alt-right and all the other identifiers that people use to marginalize the value of what someone on the other side might bring to the conversation.

At 10:50 he cites identity politics as the left's impediment to recovery as though its influence has lost its potency, when it's actually the opposite. It just needs to be reorganized with a central unifier to give it new impetus as a movement rather than a chickenshit campaign tactic. Pandering insults most peoples' intelligence but different groups of people want to have their particular distinctions and interests/issues addressed in exchange for their vote(s). How to do that equitably across the board isn't the job for a politician's strategists and advisors because we've seen how well that works, right? Nor is a mouthpiece very well suited for the task. The left needs their own non-politician who won't be torn to pieces by the left (they tend to eat their own) for applying a truly inclusive and fair-minded approach to working with the opposition instead of weaving baskets to put them in, because being truly inclusive and fair-minded is what it's gonna take. Not sure if I'm very clear in how I make that point.
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Re: Wake up and smell the facism!

Postby BruceP on Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:45 pm



Yuge WikiLeaks dump today in case no one saw it.

whoa whoa whoa...not so fast!:


Shaping thought rather than informing it:




Truth:
Last edited by BruceP on Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Wake up and smell the facism!

Postby BruceP on Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:56 pm

grzegorz wrote:



Thanks Trump!


Fascism?

A little intellectual honesty goes a long way in lending credibility to your premise.

Here are some YT pages full of those kinds of vids. Note the dates on most of them.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... nt+refusal

https://www.youtube.com/results?sp=SBTq ... nt+refusal
Last edited by BruceP on Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wake up and smell the facism!

Postby BruceP on Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:24 pm

grzegorz wrote:
Btw Bruce, you have been saying that same thing since election day. I get it you don't trust MSM as you say. You posted this right after the election.

BruceP wrote:Greg, CNN cutting live feeds with folks when they started talking about WikiLeaks, Project Veritas, ballot stuffing against Bernie, etc, etc...

I didn't need to tune into MSNBC or CBS or ABC for my daily reminder of how evil Trump is/was - I just came here and read through the discussions you all were having.

The sky isn't falling, though. It's just people casting their one ballot against the lies, omissions, unfairness, and deceptive tactics MSM knowingly and willfully attempted in crafting a false narrative. Where was their investigative reporting on the videos of DNC ballot stuffing? DNC paying people to incite violence at Trump rallies? Soros throwing money into the boiler of 'social justice'? Pay for play? Qatari and Saudi millions paid toward the future shaping of US foreign policy? Evasive and false testimonies given by candidate Clinton at FBI and Congressional hearings? Oh, if those hammers could talk, eh.

CNN guy saying how it's illegal to read WikiLeaks files, and that only the media is allowed to read them - thus implying that people should trust them, the media, to 'report' on anything worth knowing about. CNN lady straight up calling Trump a racist based on statements he made regarding muslims and illegal immigrants -neither of which are a 'race' of any sort. CBC dolt calling him a sexist. Matthews, Williams, and all the other talking heads adjusting their junk while they melt down the truth and cast it into something other than truth. Journalism, eh. It left the building when duty and loyalty were sold to them who pull the strings.

Rust Belt votes being motivated/swayed by the potential of industrial revitalization is too simplistic and narrow. Those states turning red last night is symptomatic of a much broader set of issues that your country is dealing with, and it starts with what is/was being bandied about by media in trying shape thought rather than inform it. People are smarter than MSM assumes.


WOW! What a profound well thought out argument. Don't worry about anything having to do with Trump it is just the media lying to you!



I see Bruce, such wisdom and intellect you are just about to win me over


What I wrote there actually turned out to be a really accurate summary of what gave Trump his victory. Even the Dems and msm pundits have said a lot of the same things.


grzegorz wrote: My point is whether you are aware of it or not you keep bringing the same thing to the table


Well, what I brought to the table was all that was needed to debunk the false narrative you tied to create in your opening post, before all the edits. Not to mention the truth in my statement regarding the illegals.
Last edited by BruceP on Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wake up and smell the facism!

Postby grzegorz on Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:15 pm

We addressed checkpoints perhaps you forgot.

You haven't refuted anything all you do is say it's the media, it's the media, it's the media...you sound like Sarah Palin.

Talk about intellectual dishonesty, when we actually do address policy you shut down and say I don't know much, I am just a Canuck playing the snow.

Needless to say this thread hasn't ended so I am it sure why you think won a prize. You have yet to make a single arguement.
Last edited by grzegorz on Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:29 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Wake up and smell the facism!

Postby Michael on Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:18 pm

BruceP wrote:The left needs their own non-politician who won't be torn to pieces by the left (they tend to eat their own) for applying a truly inclusive and fair-minded approach to working with the opposition instead of weaving baskets to put them in, because being truly inclusive and fair-minded is what it's gonna take. Not sure if I'm very clear in how I make that point.

Do you mean they claim being inclusive as one of their platforms, but the way they have expressed it in identity politics is inherently divisive and exclusive?
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Re: Wake up and smell the facism!

Postby grzegorz on Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:28 pm

Exclusive: Trump administration considering separating women, children at Mexico border | Reuters

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN16A2ES
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Re: Wake up and smell the facism!

Postby windwalker on Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:19 am

grzegorz wrote:
Exclusive: Trump administration considering separating women, children at Mexico border | Reuters

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN16A2ES


Women and children crossing together illegally into the United States could be separated by U.S. authorities under a proposal being considered by the Department of Homeland Security, according to three government officials.

Part of the reason for the proposal is to deter mothers from migrating to the United States with their children, said the officials, who have been briefed on the proposal.

The policy shift would allow the government to keep parents in custody while they contest deportation or wait for asylum hearings. Children would be put into protective custody with the Department of Health and Human Services, in the "least restrictive setting" until they can be taken into the care of a U.S. relative or state-sponsored guardian.


In a statement to Reuters, DHS said: "The journey north is a dangerous one with too many situations where children - brought by parents, relatives or smugglers - are often exploited, abused or may even lose their lives.


Do you disagree with the rational, what would be a better way?

What about children who are separated from their parents in the US, US citizens
who are bad parents?

of course there are also bad kids

Funes-Machada is allegedly the oldest sibling of his family, with two minor children at the home at the time of the alleged beheading, though authorities said they were unharmed. Another sibling was at school at the time of the alleged attack.

Funes-Machada is currently being held at the Franklin County Detention Center without bond, and ICE’s Bryan Cox said the agency has requested that the illegal immigrant be turned over to federal authorities, should he be released for any reason.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... ng-mother/

"should he be released for any reason" ?
wow, I guess ya never know.
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:40 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Wake up and smell the facism!

Postby BruceP on Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:07 am

grzegorz wrote:We addressed checkpoints perhaps you forgot


Haven't forgotten. I just thought since you've revisited some of the stuff I posted, that a fair-minded person wouldn't begrudge me doing the same in kind. More about that below...

grzegorz wrote:You haven't refuted anything all you do is say it's the media, it's the media, it's the media...you sound like Sarah Palin.

Talk about intellectual dishonesty, when we actually do address policy you shut down and say I don't know much, I am just a Canuck playing the snow

jibberish

grzegorz wrote:Needless to say this thread hasn't ended so I am it sure why you think won a prize

extra jibberish

grzegorz wrote:You have yet to make a single arguement.


No, I kinda did. I argued a little bit...

I posited that your thanking/blaming Trump for the checkpoints is misguided - if not straight-up intellectually dishonest given the video's header- because those checkpoints have been a part of the immigration department's SOP for years. You should be thanking/blaming the lawmakers who put the laws on the books, and the actions the immigration department takes in enforcing those laws.

On the illegals, I argued that the message you're attempting to craft with that video is spurious, at best, because it doesn't tell the real story. I showed that illegals in your country have been jumping our border, illegally, for years. If someone has legit documentation issued by your immigration department, they have nothing to worry about whether they stay in the US or jump the border - even though jumping the border is still illegal.

If someone wants to stagger around in the snow until his digits freeze off, the blame is squarely on them. If, for some reason they bought into the hyperbole and fear-mongering, then maybe some of the blame is shared by those who are generating that hyperbole and fear with their daily tolling on that bell. We all know who has been doing a pile of that, right?


Not sure what you're trying to say about a prize but the only prize winners in this thread are those that read it and recognize it as a testament to the manner in which a false narrative is cultivated and perpetuated against the truth of things. Any one who can spell fascism can see it. Oh...wait...nevermind

When I first saw the title of this thread - Wake up and smell the facism! - while snooping around the forums here, I was like; "Is that even a thing now? How does something like that go?"

Buddy; Look at that dude. I don't like his face.
Guy; Which dude? That one? What's wrong with his face?
Buddy; His nose is too big, his chin is too small and that brow-ridge *shudder*
Guy; Don't be facist, man! That's FACISM!

Then I clicked on the thread a couple days later and read a few posts and was like, "Oh, FASCISM...huh...gawd bless him"

Anyway, this has been an interesting exchange. It's obvious that you're intolerant of reasoned, fair and truthful debate when its arguments bring the veracity of your premises into question. And that you're ill-equipped to reciprocate when debate is offered in that manner.
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Re: Wake up and smell the facism!

Postby grzegorz on Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:43 am

What was my point about checkpoints then?

My point was Trump wants more of this crap. If you like it so much then move to a red state rather than living in the 51st blue state.

I posted your posts because you don't actually debate anything. All your posts are basically, "There is nothing to see here. Move on..."

I get your game. The game is we can't debate because everything we are told is all lies.

I called you out and I am sticking to it.
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Re: Wake up and smell the facism!

Postby grzegorz on Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:47 am

So the US which caused the problems in El Salvador can't figure out why families are fleeing violence in El Salvador?

No Wind, I don't believe in making refugees lose their children or their fingers and I am sure if they were Irish, which you are so passionate about, you wouldn't feel that way either.

Would you treat the Irish Iike this? I know that in Breitbart world immigrants are everywhere but they are not. The fact is immigration is at net zero.

As man believe we should help those less fortunate as Jesus taught us. You may not buy into that philosophy but I don't see how ripping apart families makes America great. Obviously we have very different core beliefs but then why do conservatives claim that this is a Christian nation when their policies prove otherwise?
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Re: Wake up and smell the facism!

Postby BruceP on Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:35 pm

Michael wrote:Do you mean they claim being inclusive as one of their platforms, but the way they have expressed it in identity politics is inherently divisive and exclusive?


Hi, Michael

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner.

I'm still trying to put my thoughts together on how the left can recover its cohesion and (maybe) unity with a sound strategy and delivery, and how a model might be put together in going forward with the ideas I wrote about regards the anti-Cult of Personality etc, and the identity politics that Harris was talking about. It's like trying to untangle a hairball.
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Re: Wake up and smell the facism!

Postby Michael on Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:08 pm

Yeah, no worries, Bruce. I'm playing catch-up on how Trump got elected because during the election process I was turned off by his style, but other people see or think they see substance there and so he won. The response of the democrats to Trump's victory was so excessively inaccurate, as were their predictions, that I would like to know how they can pull it back together.
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Re: Wake up and smell the facism!

Postby windwalker on Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:50 pm

So the US which caused the problems in El Salvador can't figure out why families are fleeing violence in El Salvador?


Not the issue.

No Wind, I don't believe in making refugees lose their children or their fingers and I am sure if they were Irish, which you are so passionate about, you wouldn't feel that way either.


What does this even mean, " Irish" where do you get this.... Refugees are refugees, illegal is illegal no matter where they'er from.

Would you treat the Irish Iike this? I know that in Breitbart world immigrants are everywhere but they are not. The fact is immigration is at net zero.


yo dude, are you racist or something, you got a thing for the Irish?
Breithbat, is just another news source. We'er not talking about immigration, we are talking about illegal aliens who endanger their kids trying to bring them into the US. One might ask why Mexico allows them to cross into and through their border.


As man believe we should help those less fortunate as Jesus taught us. You may not buy into that philosophy but I don't see how ripping apart families makes America great. Obviously we have very different core beliefs but then why do conservatives claim that this is a Christian nation when their policies prove otherwise?


Why not put the responsibility on the parents for endangering the kids. The polices are trying discourage people from bringing their kids to the US illegal and putting them in danger in the processes. The parents will be held in some detention center,,,catch and release is out...not happening anymore.
The kids will be sent to either relatives or held in some home until the parents are sent back, at that time they too will be sent back.

Do you feel anyone should be allowed into the US by just crossing the border?
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